A rant on anti-Chrisian Wiccans.

I visited the home of a friand and fellow pagan recently, and mentioned to her that I had just come from a Bible study. Yes, I said it: a Bible study. It was at the church across the street from where I live. Her son started laughing at the top of his lungs and (jokingly, thank goodness) chewed me out for even bringing a Bible into the house. Both started laughing when I said that I had Song of Solomon scriptures in my BOS. The gag in the family is that I can't seem to choose which religion I am.

I don't get it. I am an eclectic Wiccan. I do not believe that the Christian YHWH or Jesus has any problem with magick, just that his followers tend to. The Bible has some excellent wisdom in it, and wonderful poetry. I don't see how copying a couple of verses about love of all things as blasphemous, especially considering how many Christian pastors teach that the "days" mentioned in Genesis were really millions of years, and all that. The Christian YHWH is another deity, just like Zeus or Odin, right? No one complains if I draw a representation of them. I know more about YHWH than Odin, though.

I almost feel sorry for YHWH. Allah, too. Those guys seem to be reviled by the majority of the Missouri Witches. Sad.

Okay. Rant over. I feel better. Any thoughts?

 

Your religion is whatever you believe. Why try to put it into a category? It isn't the name that is important.

 

Before you were born there was nothing, then you come into being, and everything comes into being, plants, the earth, stars, the universe, everything.

Its all in your mind, everything.



Its all up to you.

 

Yahweh has a problem with magic and sorcery or anything that empowers the individual, says so himself.

Doesnt matter how you fluff it up.

 

True, he is also not cool with being mentioned in the same sentence as other dieties, especially not if you decide to worship them too. He's a jealous God, said so himself, to Moses. It's all in there.


As to the followers dodgy as their judgement may look it does have a certain logic based on the scriptures. It is the direct* word of God, at least in their eyes, and his word goes. Yes they've got more civil and sensible in recent years but are not going to be breaking out the bunting if their verses get some airtime in magic circles.

Honestly have no problem with God#, though jeez have his followers pulled some crazy shit on his behalf. We're just never seen eye to eye. Know that Christianity has it's poetry, good stories, and amusing insanity. No problem with that as it stands.
Still don't truly see how you can take that on without having the complete package. That's not pagans being big meanies, that's the base nature of any organised religion. They don't play in our sandbox so we keep out of theirs. Just a practical thing, am really not convinced someone can reconcile the beliefs for them to be truly compatable and be a true follower of both religions as they stand.

I have no real pity for God or Allah, they have more than enough of their own followers and aren't going to loose sleep over not being flavour of the month with a bunch of witches, any more than the other patheons are fussed about the Christians or Muslims. The Gods just look out for their own and to hell with the rest (literally or otherwise).

*allowing for translations, the passing of time and so on. Which is solid enough to sustain a major religion for centuries. So am not going to argue.

#Yahew, though he's always just God to me. Never a problem because the other Gods have their own names.

 

Christianity teaches intolerance of all other religions......in fact, it's the first of their God's commandments.....

...ever hear of a town called Salem? Good starting reference for christianities attitude to witchcraft in it's history.......

 

Yeah there are verses in there against magic, witches, and sorcery.

Although I read somewhere that the hebrew word got mistranslated into "witch" actually meant well-poisoner, but it might not be true.

Let heron tell you about the real deal between El, the tetragammaton and Jesus. Or read his journal, good stuff.

But like I said, its all in your mind. Believe what you want to believe as far as your spirituality goes.

 

Exactly. Thank you Oz! I may seem to be a Jesus hater. What I am is intolerant of the intolerant. The extreme Right Wingers here like Erasmus and BeyondTheClouds clog up my ignore list. They exist on HF only to harrass and spread lies. I do a little counter harrassment, but only in good fun. I don't hate anyone and I don't do it to hurt anyone. I've said it before, Pagans don't recruit. This is not out of arrogance or isolation, we just don't feel the need to jam our beliefs down other peoples' throats like the fundies do.

For the record, I was born Jewish and went to Hebrew school. Converted to Christianity when I was 8, attended church twice a week for 12 years, was in the choir, chorale and an acolyte in the Episcopal Church, and was an agnostic from the time I was 20 until I was 35. I have a sister who is a minister with her own parish. If she, as my living matriarch, my counsellor, a theologian, and leader if a flock can accept my choice, the destiny of my soul is no one else's business.

 

there's nothing wrong with blending two beliefs together... anyone who laughs is uneducated.

 

the fact that you started your sentence out with "There's nothing wrong with blending two beliefs together" shows your lack of education. The fact that you believe you can just mix religions like paint makes anything you have to say about religions tainted.

Sorry, but fluff makes my stomach churn.

 

hmmmmmmm

Interesting posts.

 

OK I should scrap the thing about not arguing with people who have worse grammar than me. It's just not working out.

Oh really, must have missed that memo.
I always took that particular quote not to debase other religions per se, but to appeal for true commitment to that path. My parents vowed to 'forsake all others' on their wedding day, but they are still tolerant of other people and their relationships.

Ever heard of a play called the Crucible?
I admit it was based on true events, but is not valid by the standards of historical accuracy. Miller ultimatly wrote it as an allegory of Communism and the Mcarthy trials. Close but no cigar theme wise.
Wouldn't want anyone to look silly trying to pass of a work of fiction as some kind of historical fact.
Though of course I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and believe people have looked far deeper into the issue than a brief google search and watching the movie adaptation.

As for Salem itself, you can't swing a cat in there without it hitting a 'witch'. Place is crawling with them, it's a tourist thing. If there was a problem regarding religious tolerance we'd know about it.
Good starting reference for '17th century's over kiddo so get a grip'

I could just ditto Heron and be done with, but I'm on a roll.

Yeah I'm laughing, it was a toss up between that and dumbfounded horror.
How is it ignorance to take the time and effort to learn to truly understand two [or more] seperate religions, having been educated regarding them from various sources and perspectives, to assess their compatablity, then be able to truly justify your conclusions with more than a trite two sentence answer?

Normally abhore this, so utterly childish and vulgar, but feel it must be done; my 'creditals', for want of a better term...
Fourteen years of classes in religious studies [Christianity as a focus, but encompassing all major world religions and philosophical debate], world history and English. (British grading/college system would too complicated to explain, and not very relevant)
Hands on experience of several belief systems over the years
Currently studying for a university degree

Now if there is any way I could be more 'educated' in these matters, consider I've only been alive twenty years, I would be very interested to hear it.

 

Yup, exactly! I still haven't met a xian who is tolerant of my religon, but Im expected to be tolerant of theirs.:$

 

I think to tell anyone who doesn't share your faith that "your god is false, and only mine is the true God" is about as debasing as you can get..... persecution and prejudice don't have to be demonstrated on a physical level, although history is littered with very physical demonstrations of it from the abrahanic traditions

never heard of it

Odd isn't it... 17th century was a long time ago..... yet the chapter and verse that instigated the witch trials (not to mention torquemada and his happy henchmen) still exist in official religious texts...... and witchcraft and wicca are both practices not publically (or legally) recognised in the US. Don't you think it's odd that in this age of religious tolerance and "glorification", as you seem to imply, of the persecution of pagan people that those who have an alternative religion to the majority of the population don't have the same rights as them?

Chritians might be allowing a witch to live these days... yet their religious texts order against it, and they are damned if they are going to publically recognise it above their own beliefs, or, indeed, recognise it as a "true" religion at all.... when christians actually practice the tolerance they preach about, then they'll get respect.

How long would witchcraft have existed at all, in any shape or form if it's religious texts contained the line "thou shalt not suffer a christian to live"?

think about it

 

Actually it is legally recognized, even in the military.
It wasnt ever really "illegal", like in the UK, just
didnt have any rights for the most part.

Just for added shits and giggles, there were no
witches killed in the Salem trials. Only one that
had done anything was the black lady, and she
was practicing voodoo. Did she die? i dont remember
that part.

 

you should really read this heron, especially as you seem to be a pagan living in the US
why, if wicca isn't illegal, won't the supreme court recognise it?? seems kinda odd, not daring to say it's right, not daring to say it's wrong.... cowards way around a problem of religious practices being non exclusive (christians live alongside pagans, yet refusing to fully acknowledge them under law? prejudice in a fine coat if yer ask me)

then for some strange reason the american people took one small incident, and warped it so far out of proportion that generations of kids grew up thinkin' it was "cool" to burn witches, how odd..... why do you think they would do that?? they ddn't turn rome into a theme-town for throwing christians to the lions....

 

Oh i didnt say that we get full and equal treatment, that would be freedom of religion, why would that be in america?

Im not disagreeing with you, i live here and I see that it is a shit place for religions other that Christian. I live in south Mississippi btw, this is Jesus loving, god fearing, Dale Earnheart worshiping Bush country down here.

As to the Rome=Christian burning theme town? I'd book a trip for the package oneday.

 

They weren't burrned, they were hanged, oh, and one guy was crushed by rocks, but he wasn't on trial for witchcraft...

Kind of ironic, the reson the people were hanged is cause they wouldn't admit to their "crimes" because that would be lying, and every good Puritian knows that lying is a sin and a one way ticket to hell. Acctually, it is more sad that ironic when you thin about it...

 

yeah but would you light the match? you seem to have a hatred for christians that much ..........tell me heron do you view all christians as the same or individually? ............and do you honestly think george bush and his murdering counter parts are really christians .........fool the people springs to mind .

 

No, i wouldnt light the match. No one should be killed for their beliefs.
I dont hate christians, i have christian friends for that matter. I dont like christianity as a whole, but I dont blame individuals for that.

The Rome thing was in reference to the Salem of today. Which has become a trendy town for tourist to see witches.

It was a joke.

and regardless to wheter bush is christian, his extreme-right followers are, and they are the ones I run into everday, not george bush. Besides, i have no reason to believe he isnt Christian.