ALL Species Are Endangered

ALL species are endangered. This is a simple fact.
Billions of people in China, India, Brazil and Russia,
as well as other smaller nations, are working very
hard to live like Americans and Europeans right
now and there is no way the planet can handle it.

Nor is there anything that's being proposed by the
environmental movement that will do anything to
even delay the inevitable disaster facing us.

That disaster may take one of two forms:

1. The use of the governmental and private armies
of the world to create walled enclaves (towns) for the elite
outside of which there will be no law as we understand
it here and now.

In otherwords, what's left of the Earth will go to a bunch
of yuppies-in-denial and the rest of us will fight each other for
the scraps.

2. The complete collapse of the global industrial infrastructure.

This may happen first, as the result of natural disasters created
by abuse of the environment, depressions, rioting, draught,
warfare over markets and resources....

Or it may happen after the yuppies-in-denial take over, when
people realize that they are never going to make it inside those
walled communities and just tear everything down.

LIttlefoot

 

All species are perpetually endangered and always will be. As to your arguement's:
Most of what you said was absolutely ridiculous, where are these wealthy people going to get the respources to build these walled towns? Who the hell would build it for them? I predict a massive death toll at first(Assuming we can't restructure the global economy anytime soon), followed by a period of relative prosperity driven by advances in hyrdoponics and medicine, while warfare is eliminated by WMD's. There will be small scale scrabbles but no major warfare. It all dpends how long it takes for the enviroment to go kablewy.

 

The world is not going to end. People have been predicting this since, well, probably since before written history and it hasn't happened yet. There's no reason to believe that some sort of apocalyptic scenario will unfold and every reason to think that humanity and human society will go on for a very long time. The question is how well will we all live. The average person could be something like a relatively wealthy Swiss person or a relatively impoverished Bangladeshi. Our actions now will shape the future and help determine which of the two outcomes is the more likely.

cj

 

We need to fundamentally change the way we live. You, and
others like you, don't want to even consider that. You want to go on living as you are, and to hell with the other species and the fates of our own descendents who will inherit
the mess we've created.
go on worshipping at the altar of the god of Technology and
to believe that we can have our Earth and eat it too.

Littlefoot

 

And what altar are you worshipping at? Have you ever worked outside year round, have you ever really been cold, hungry, dehydrated or overheated?

I bet not. You are looking for a bandwagon to jump on. And there are many marketers willing to market to your fears. It's all about who the best ad company is. Who can sell their fear better.

I work with mother nature, when man is long gone she will balance herself and carry on.

 

Hello Gardener. You sure love to make assumptions based
on ignorance. I have spent most of my adult life living
in the wilderness and near-wilderness. I have lived entirely
independently of this civilization for weeks on end, and
lived in 'communes' that were 90%+ self-sufficient.

I'm not selling fear. I am not selling anything. Facts are
facts and they won't go away just because you don't like
them. There's only about 57 million square miles of land on
the planet. 1/2 of it has been cold and hot desert for
thousands of years. Only 1/2 of the remainder, 1/4 of the
land on the planet, was biologically productive when this
ill-fated lifestyle experiment began around 1776 with the
Industrial Revolution.

My current ecological footprint is about 1/10 that of the
typical American, but I am still a part of the problem, as
you are.

The Earth simply cannot sustain billions of people with
huge ecological footprints and the so-called 'environmental
movement' is doing and planning NOTHING that will preserve
the Earth. If we eliminated all greenhouse gasses and
instituted 100% recycling it wouldn't make any difference at
all. The vast majority of the damage being done is through
resource extraction, converting forests into tree farms,
roading and building construction and industrial agriculture
and refining and manufacturing.

You and everyone like you, the majority of the people, want
to believe that Technology Will Save Us. But the problems we
are having now are the RESULT of the abuse and over-use of
technology.....

More technology will simply make things worse.

Please observe that since the first Earth Day, every single
year we have done more harm to the planet than the year
and the rate is INCREASING.

The so-called 'environmental movement' is a corporate-
sponsored disinformation campaign. They want us all to
that we can go on living as we do and that Technology will
save us. But the vast majority of scientists are owned by
the coroporations and those corporations don't care about
anything but making money and making jobs and making goodies
for their consumers.

We are in BIG trouble, Gardener.

The only real solution is for human power to become the main-
stay of our economy, and to use the lowest order of
technology that will get any job done. For long distance
communication that means electronics and small amounts of
electricity. For long range transportation that means
airborne mass transit.

We have to localize the creation of the necessities of life.
Transporting raw materials and finished goods all over the
planet does incredible, and unnecessary damage.

The economist, Robby Batra, of SMU, said: "We export cookies
to China and we import cookies from China. Why don't we just
trade recipes?"

That's what a REAL Information Age will bring: Trading in
recipes instead of material goods.

And if it comes soon, we have a chance.

Littlefoot

 

ok i have a reply to this but im realy tierd but love the cookie quote!

 

Tom

 

I'm not going to get into the debate about the end of civilization. Instead, I want to focus on the part about ALL species being endangered. This is simply not true.

I am sure there are millions, if not billions of insect species that will survive any change in the environment. There have been five mass extinctions in during the Phanerozoic, and none of them have wiped out ALL living species. The one that you are probably most familiar with happened 65 MYA, at the Cretaceous/Paleogene boundary. That's the extinction of the dinosaurs. The evidence is supporting a massive meteor hit Earth off of the Yucatan peninsula. Even then, when the Earth was deprived of sunlight for years, there was a mass radiation of diversity of species following the extinction. So no, I doubt humans are going to cause a mass extinction (especially catastrophic) of all species. We may cause the background extinction rate to increase, but that's about it. You would be surprised how tough life is to destroy completely.

Peace and love

 

If this is how you wish to go about evading the reality of the
awesome destructiveness of this global industrial civilization,
then have at it.

When there is no food at the stores and no water or natural
gas coming out of
the pipes and no electricity available at the outlets and no
fuel for the vehicles, and you are surrounded by millions of armed
and desperate peoplewho will do anything to 'feed their families',
you can tell them the above before they kill you and take whatever
you have left.

I'm sure they will be delighted to be educated by you.

Littlefoot

 

I thought this thread was about all species being endangered of extinction. I presented well accepted scientific facts about the subject. You reply with a paranoid view of the future w/ little to no evidence to support your claims, especially the claim that all species are endangered. Honestly, I can't imagine a scenario like the one you are describing b/c there would be huge death tolls due famine and disease brought on by a lack of food. I really doubt there would be millions of armed people- where would the weapons come from? Most people would be too frail from starvation to attack. Plus, if there was no food or water, how would the weapons be manufactured? I don't understand how you figured this would happen b/c people would run out of fossil fuel (depending if there are alternative fuels ready), then manufacturing would stop (if no such alt. fuels existed), sanitation would get bad, diseases such as bubonic plague would make a comeback, and millions of people would die from famine or disease. This is the absolute worst case scenario, but I believe it is more realistic than a small group of elites living in walled areas or millions of people attacking one another.

Peace and love

Peace and love

 

Peace and love are all very fine and good. But if they aren't
backed up by an open mind that looks at the real world and
does its homework, they are just empty words.

Whether you like it or not, we are doing serious harm to
the Nature that sustains us and that's something you
can't do without serious and negative consequences.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Littlefoot

 

I'm not denying that humans are making a negative impact. What I've been saying is that life has survived much greater catastrophes in the past and no matter what humans do, life will prevail. Do you know that over 99% of species that have ever lived are extinct?

Peace and love

 

Methane gas wouldn't explain the layer of Iridium (either extraterrestrial or less likely, from deep seated volcanism) found globally at the Cretaceous/Paleogene boundary or the 10 mile crater off the Yucatan Peninsula. Perhaps the methane gas was a contributing factor; however, I don't know the probability of this scenario occurring. It's an interesting theory that definitely should be researched more extensively.

Peace and love

 

Take a look at the history of Easter Island.


Littlefoot

 

it seems pretty obvious that we are undergoing another cold war at the moment, and the theory of mutual destruction fails to deter a lot of jihadists. It's sort of scary, but humans stand to become an endangered species along with the rest. When I look at the history of the Easter Islands, Atlantian legends across the globe that all resemble one another, and the evidence of the lost continent of Lemuria I'm led to believe that we are not the first intelligent race to inhabit this planet.

 

Yes I understand the history of Easter Island- and what? There is still life there. ALL species are not extinct. When I did some research on the island, humans weren't the only factor to blame for the extinction of most forest trees. The "Little Ice Age" contributed by making climatic change that would have prevented the forests from recovering. Also, a man named Hunt believes the rats were to blame for destroying the palm trees. Humans caused a lot of damage, but there is still life there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Island

In your title, you say that ALL species are endangered. I am countering that claim, because it is simply not true. Life will survive, no matter what humans do.

Peace and love

 

You don't KNOW that. You THINK that. There's a big difference between
the two.

If the Earth is a living organism, which myself and many others believe
to be the case, then it can die like any other organism.

Then all the species would be dead, wouldn't they? Even if they
were relatively healthy up until the point where the Earth died.

Human being's die all the time from one defective organ, don't
they? Then all of their organs are dead, aren't they?

Let me guess: You haven't read about the above concept in
the officially approved textbooks that they let you memorize
supposed 'facts' from in college, therefore it can't be true,
right?

What we are doing to this planet is suicidal.

The fact that you don't want to face reality won't change it
a bit.

Littlefoot

 

Plenty of invasive species are thriving in new environments.
Not to say that this is all good.

Look at Florida and the new arrivals: Formosan Termites, Killer Bees, Fire Ants, Walking Catfish, Pythons, Monitor Lizzards. Ouch !

In our waters here in Jersey we have goldfish/carp,& zebra mussels. there are tree eating beetles from Asia. and invasive plants.

Environmental disruption creates opportunity for some species. The invaders can be evidence of a problem. Some species are really tough and can thrive in a degraded environment. Carp can swim in waters with little oxygen.