America's Future Oil Source

The Oil Sands Of Alberta


(CBS) There’s an oil boom going on right now. Not in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or any of those places, but 600 miles north of Montana.

In Alberta, Canada, in a town called Fort McMurray where, this time of year, the temperature sometimes zooms up to zero.

The oilmen up there aren’t digging holes in the sand and hoping for a spout. They’re digging up dirt — dirt that is saturated with oil. They’re called oil sands, and if you’ve never heard of them then you’re in for a big surprise because the reserves are so vast in the province of Alberta that they will help solve America’s energy needs for the next century...

LINK

 

Very interesting.

 

Cool. Strip mining AND more petroleum to burn, two of the planet's favorite things.

Seriously, its good that the social disruption of peak oil is somewhat ameliorated. It gives us more time to find sustainable ways to live on this (or maybe a different) planet.

 

Good point!

 

Didn't you hear them say that there requires a huge investment of energy to get out the oil? This isn't like pumping oil, which returns your energy inventments many times over. You're putting in all this energy to extract the oil from the sand (or shale, in oil shales) and only get a little surplus energy.

Here's an analogy, off the top of my head (the ratios are invented but it'll give you the concept). You have $100. You invest it in the stock market everyone uses (oil), and do well, and end up, after selling all your shares, with $2,000. Next, you invest $100 in this new market (oil sand/oil shale), and, in the end, finish with total earnings of $300.

Now, you tell me, can the growth-economy-system stand such small energy returns? No sir. Factor in environmental implications: the strip mines, river contamination, habitat disruption, fossil fuels used while extracting fossil fuels (resulting in carbon and other noxious emmisions)... remembering that a society must pay to fix these problems, and you're not really doing all that well. Of course, those and other problems are all common with "traditional" oil wells, but of course, the energy/financial returns are so huge (though shrinking quickly now) that we've been able to ignore it. Fact is, things are going to change, and oil is on the way out.

 

I think that even when you have an abundance of something you should still use some sort of conservation practices because I think the best time to conserve is when you have a lot of something. I'd think that implementing and sticking to conservation methods could off set or reduce some of the enviromental problems that can come with this.

 

Hydrogen fuel is very feasible. Maybe we should just concentrate on making that more affordable than just finding more ways to rape the earth.

 

Very nice. How do you get the hydrogen? If you say "crack water" where are you gonna get the energy to do so? Don't say from sunlight, photovoltaics actually use more energy to create than they ever produce, they're net energy sinks not energy producers.

The next big things are butanol (burn in gasoline vehicles) and the new procedure Shell found which is producing viable oil at $30 a barrel to produce, by extracting oil from shale. The way they do it, it doesn't leach into the ground water, and we have enough reserves in Colorado in shale to tell the Arabs to go boil their collective heads.

 

I dont know how they're doing it, but hydrogen fuel cells are available for less than $10,000 AU. Hydrogen power is very feasible and is currently under research to become cheaper and more efficient. My best mate is doing his honors degree on hydrogen power after which he is going to spend a year building a car. Its very real.

 

RE: I dont know how they're doing it, but hydrogen fuel cells are available for less than $10,000 AU.

These require platinum, which is expensive, cause it's rare.

Believe me, there's no technology that can replace oil, except butanol. TDP might help in the short term. Thank GOD for shale extraction that buys us another 100yrs./

 

Let's look at the chemical equation:
2 (H20) + energy (in the form of electricity) --> 2(H2) + O2

How do we generate more energy? By burning a hydrocarbon, thus just transferring the problem of emissions one step further from the consumer.

You obviously can't use hydrogen to do this, as some energy is lost (in the form of heat) and you clearly can't create energy. Hydrogen REQUIRES an alternate form of energy, but is more viable than say, methane., because cars can use it more efficiently and safely.

 

There'll be people who'll argue "just get power from the sun!!!!!"

ARGH

 

The simple fact you fail to consider is that a hydrogen powered car, even if petroleum or natural gas is used as a "base fuel", would not require nearly as much of the base fuel as a normal car, nor would it let off as many poisonous emmissions nor use as many of the earth's resources.

Now this is not considering the fact that solar energy may be used as the base fuel. Also consider that once you have started the energy cycle that breaks down water into hydrogen and oxygen, the cycle will provide almost enough energy to give a continuous energy flow, with only a minimum input from other energy sources.

Also consider the fact my friend is 22 and an honour's student in chemistry and that he has been researching the subject for over 4 years and that hydrogen fuel research is alive and well in Australia.

 

No, but the gigantic plant cracking the hydrocarbons (e.g. OIL) up into hydrogen would. You're just moving the problem elsewhere. There is no free lunch. The fact that you have a car that produces no emissions doesn't mean that there's no emissions. Let's put it this way - people at one point thought cars were a godsend cause they were no longer ankle deep in horse crap.

NO IT CANNOT. IT CANNOT IT CANNOT IT CANNOT IT CANNOT IT CANNOT
IT CAN'T PAY ATTENTION IT CANNOT.

You have NO CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

You're very good at figuring out how to use the hydrogen. However, you haven't any real suggestions for where to GET the hydrogen. And BTW your 22 year old friend with the degree? HA, people with PhD's and decades of research haven't figured it out.

 

We're not running out of oil, just easily available cheap sources of it.. As prices rise so then previously overly expensive sources of it, or ways of getting to it become more feasible..

 

Never said any of that dude.

I don't have a good knowledge of chemistry, but somehow they are doing these things in labs in Australia. I was just trying to suggest a solution dude. Maybe i'm wrong but we seriously need to move away from petroleum

Don't be so righteous, this is an environmental debate for god's sake. Not an "Iron Goth" or "Lying in a field" is smarter than everyone debate.

 

More like it gives us more excuses not to use alternative methods, the point is we are only still using oil because there's people out there who make billions of dollars doing so, if it was not for this fact we would have achieved high levels of renewable energy production decades ago, but it simply isn't profitable, not by comparison to oil.

I would also imagine it is a far harder maket to dominate since it is doubtful under an advanced level of renewable energy that we would depend on energy producers... homes will become energy self sufficient eventually, technology will make that possible the way things are moving, all be it very slowly... so, those with the power and making the money out of oil will do anything to slow the renewable process down as it's not in their financial interests, so they believe.... maybe the planetary environment will have the last laugh?

 

We don't have alternatives to oil.

We just DO NOT.

DON'T.

PERIOD.

Solar panels COST MORE IN ENERGY TO MAKE THAN THEY EVER PRODUCE. So yeah the sun is providing ALL THIS ENERGY, but for us to get it in a workable form, we have to put more into it than we'll ever get. That's like paying $100 for something that'll give you back $80. You will not make money this way.

 

Optimism is a wonderful thing.

 

Optimism is excellent. Reality is another.

Hydrogen cars don't solve the problem, any more than shoving your dirty dishes into the stove and cupboards so you don't see them will stop you from getting roaches.