an old one but a goodie - dear warmonger and war supporter why won't you go to iraq?

if you are so more enlightened now what will you think when the next proposed war comes about, sit back on your luxury of hindsight and claim some moral highground?

am i fleeting and unpredictable? well i hope so though i like to see myself as more capricious than absent.

of course you are going to keep an eye on thread despite what you might say, the proof is the fact that you've already been sucked in my friend.

what you need to do right now is this

think

no i'm not being rude to you, i'm giving you the means to empower yourself and your nation.

 

:smilielol5:

 

yes it is amusing...

asking people to think

whilst the wealth of a nation is poured into the sands of iraq you can be sure that people like wackyiraqi will never go and fight there.

this should be reminder to anyone of any moral character of the dangers of allowing other people to think for you and most importantly allowing unthinking people run the country

perhaps wacki can laugh about this as more american soldiers are nursing a throbbing stump in bloodied bandages, self righteous as this might seem.

 

any more customers??

 

I will take more notice and learn from how I have dealt with sources of information, from all quarters, over the last five years.
I won't allow myself to have to play catch up.
I'm "awake" as the old cliche goes.
I understand that you can't trust anybody.

Yes. You are not here long, and I never know when you will be around.
Anything else; don't flatter yourself mate.

Oh alright then, yes I am.
A little hard to skip over when the title is so bloody long.

Cheeky bugger, I already am.

You are a little, I don't need you to tell me to think, thanks all the same.
What you need to do right now is accept other peoples opinion, even if wildly different than your own. Maybe join in a few more threads where you are not setting the rules. And a broader appreciation of peoples opinion you can have.

Catch you erm, whenever. :cheers2:

 

i like to think it of tough love

of course it is confronting when you have a "radical" thought thrown at you. what i hear is a lot of is the slogans created by people up too no good. i think what is important is to at least sit down once in a while and at least examine why you feel about certain issues, it might be about choosing a different brand of toilet paper to exactly why war has to waged upon other nations.

when you start travelling around a bit you start realising that the news has little monopoly on reality.

heres a task for you

read a book called "1984" this would be a good start
"down and out in london and paris" would be another
"brave new world" might be another.

have a look at these books and get back to me

 

When did I get this radical thought thrown at me?
What was it? I missed it.

Like what?

I do.

Like I said, I hope my opinion has ateast some maturity now.
Based on being more aware of the situation or issue at hand.
What it seems you want me to do is have the same thought process and conclusions as you (but I could be wrong).

I now this, that is why I said: "I understand that you can't trust anybody". Which obviously includes the media.
I read all sorts of information from a variety of different places.
There is not much more the average Jo can do.
If you think you have some amazing insight, that you think I may not have heard, please do share.
Neither, it should be added, do you have a monopoly on reality.

I've read 1984 - I know about the other two...and your point being what?
I should look at the world through that prism, because, it is accurate and true; or it serves as a timely reminder of the way society is; what exactly?
I let you into a little secret, I don't buy in to the theory.
If you ever want to talk about it and e.gs in the the real world...feel free to start the ball rolling.

 

The war in Afganistan might have some justification although there were alternatives less costly in American lives that could have been persued, the war in Iraq though was caused by a glory hunting president flexing his "authority" via lies and misinformation in order to appear manly and succeed where his father (no mental giant himself) was wise enough not to attempt. This, almost a draft dodger, who stayed out of Vietnam because of his father's influence in getting him into the Texas Air Nat'l Guard and bailed when he realised he could no longer get sent there, has destabalised the region to the world's detriment and embroiled us in a seemingly endless conflict there. A draft should be instituted selecting only from pro war activists new troops to replace those good warriors there now, and it should specifically include those politicans who arranged it.

 

How come Afganistan has "some justification", but Iraq seemingly does not?
I notice many making the distinction, but never appreciated why.

How could the same president be : flexing his "authority" via lies and misinformation in order to appear manly and succeed where his father (no mental giant himself) was wise enough not to attempt..

While also: Showing he might have some justification in Afghanistan.

BUT, destabalising the region to the world's detriment and embroiled us in a seemingly endless conflict (both imo will last just as long)

If : A draft should be instituted selecting only from pro war activists as new troops to replace those good warriors there now, and it should specifically include those politicans who arranged it.

Why should people who think Afghanistan : might have some justification.
Not be shipped over to Afghanistan if a draft was insituted?

 

Canadians have never been drafted to Afghanistan. All of our 4,000+ troops there signed up and volunteered to go on their own accord.

None of them were shipped off or forced to go.

The occupation is a transitional operation which was NATO-led and backed. A lot of the soldiers there are decommissioning mine fields from 30 years of Soviet rule and oppression.

Afghanistan has more diplomatic cred as a mission because Colin Powell didn't go to the UN commission with false intelligence claiming that Iraq and Saddam had uranium enrichment plants and Cheney even said that Iraq had Nuclear Weapons on a national broadcast. So, yeah. The mission was built on complete made up BS from Bush's arsehole and force-fed to people to believe a complete lie.

 

The most simple answer to any of it is that it simply shouldn'tve been started man. Bush just needs to lay off the iraqi's an' return home. He said they'd have a functioning governement almost 2 years ago. Or so it seems. But look no functioning government. Hurry up follow the other lackies.:toetap05:

 

oh no!!!!

you've learnt nothing

oh well

i have had this experience before it won't be long before it happens again


may i remind you that you were wrong before and still you carry on as if nothing has happened, indeed i see why you have come to this impasse, you can't be a war supporter or war monger because any "argument" forth coming from you would be exposed as hypocritical. so instead you become a war supporter supporter and then tell me that you were all for the war in the beginning then you've changed your mind, yes i know, i know i'm going back over old familiar territory but this is necessary to expose that you don't know as much as you think. i'm not saying that i have some amazing ability to predict the future but commonsense , fact and logic pointed to a disaster from the outset are helpful.

i'm not getting you to buy into any theory i'm opening a door for you and you've slammed it shut ,these are just a few books, there's not some monemental meaning behind my suggestion. i can see why you bought into the other theory so well about the war on iraq no doubt any "alternative" voices were as distant as mine. if you slam the door information shut , of course you can't form any cogent "argument".

this is not being rude its being helpful, enraging as this might seem.

as i said before

any more customers??

 

Well it is a good point man

 

Guy, oh guy, oh guy...
It seems I've got to agree with you for me to get to your level.

Do pray tell.

True.

You don't know what I think because you have not asked me anything in particular....you're just being kinda patronising, but in a less aggresive way.

True, it started off as a monumental disaster.
But if you wanted an opinion on it, I don't think you could sit on the fence.
You either fell one way or the other.
If you thought it was a disaster, you still have to alter your mind to the current situation and reasses if it still is a disaster or not.

I say I don't buy into that theory, not because I am closed off from it, just, It has just become tiresome and cliched.
You gave me some books to read, as if this explained something, and I asked for you to get the ball rolling.
Please don't let me think you were just throwing something out there because it sounded good (or clever).

Why?
The "other voices" were not distant, they just were not ther, chap, simple as that.
No voices were there.
Not even my own.
But, I can form an arguement, guy.
When I make the effort...

 

This is not 2004 you know, "lay off the Iraqi's"??? - that's not how the situation is.
I want our boys to come home as much as you, but let's be realistic here. If you don't think we should be out there, fair enough.
But can you appreciate where there might be a conflict of opinion where Afganistan and Iraq is concerned?

 

Yes, I know.
I was just saying If people supported Afghanistan, would guy's arguement be the same as it is with Iraq.

And fighting the Taliban and killing many innocent people (albeit not intentionally), lets not sugar coat it.

My theory is, it just was not in the news and picked over as much.
If we were just In Afghanistan a stronger feeling "we should not be there" would be apparent.
But, you could be right, it could have a stronger "cred" than Iraq.
But I have an even stronger feeling it does not, just an equal one (positive or negative).
History might decide this one.

 

But it does. They UN told the UK and USA not to go to war and occupy Iraq. They went against the advice of the rest of the world.

 

2004, 2008 its all the same man. Just that same damned war. The same wasted promises. The same white lies, it never changes man. Not since 9-11 and even now almost 7 or so years later we're no closer to finishing our original task than we ever http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html
Bull he's still out there. You know why he's no longer talking? Cause he didn't talk to begin with. Someone else forged those videos of him. It's obvious.
http://ginacobb.typepad.com/gina_cobb/2007/09/is-the-bin-lade.html
http://911blimp.net/vid_fakeOsamaVideo.shtml

 

The UN did not do any such thing IMO the UN: "Determines to remain seized on the matter" is what the UN said about Iraq / Afghanistan and Siera Leone - and I imagine many other issues around the world.

Neither did the UK and US go against "the rest of the world".

Coalation of the willing:
Further information: Multinational force in Iraq In November 2002, U.S. President George W. Bush, visiting Europe for a NATO summit, declared that "should Iraqi President Saddam Hussein choose not to disarm, the United States will lead a coalition of the willing to disarm him."[2]
Thereafter, the Bush administration briefly used the term "Coalition of the Willing" to refer to the countries who supported, militarily or verbally, the 2003 invasion of Iraq and subsequent military presence in post-invasion Iraq since 2003. The original list prepared in March 2003 included 49 members.[3] Of those 49, only four besides the U.S. contributed troops to the invasion force (the United Kingdom, Australia, Poland, and Denmark). 33 provided some number of troops to support the occupation after the invasion was complete. Six members have no military.
Today, the official White House list of the coalition shows 48 member states;[4]. Costa Rica was removed from the list at the request of its president Oscar Arias. However, the relevance of several of the other nations that appear on the list has been questioned.[5] For example, Turkey remains on the list despite reneging on its support before the war began and denying U.S. forces passage to its border with Iraq during the invasion.

wiki...

 

I respect your belief we should not be there.
That is a simple and honest response to a very ugly a devisive issue.
But, come on man, don't play into the conspiracy theory.
We are closer to finishing the original task...

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/