Anarchy

Discussion in 'Anarchy' started by Burn, Sep 27, 2005.

  1. Burn

    Burn Member

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    How does it work exactly? Is it what we commonly believe: The lack of government, resulting in what Thomas Hobbes describes as, "solitary, nasty, brutish and short"?

    I'm curious.
     
  2. thumontico

    thumontico Member

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    Anarchy is simply an absence of government. I don't think the Humans actually have a desire Anarchy. Its mostly racist extremists that don't particularly like the way things are working out, so they want to form there own system, which is not anarchy. Or anarchists are depressed teenagers who don't really know what it means, but don't like authority and don't realize how shitty life would be for them if they had to kill their own food and defend their life against the most vicious animals of all, Humans.
     
  3. Communism

    Communism Member

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    What do you exactly mean by "how does it work"? How it is achieved? How organization in an anarchist society, works?

    Short version:
    In an anarchist society, the state, classes and money, have been abolished. People take what they want, and work is volentary.

    It's the same as communism, but the methods to reach this society is different.

    It's not that simple.
     
  4. thumontico

    thumontico Member

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    No, i dont know why i wrote it like that...

    What more is there to anarchy, communism?
     
  5. sociopaths aren't empathetic......

    and without government, they're running around free and easy
     
  6. Communism

    Communism Member

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    Okay, where do you get this from?

    Marx once wrote:
    [size=-1]"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.[/size]"

    That means some people may be weak, some might be stronger, and some might be able to work harder than others, while some people need more rest and leasure. It's inequality in the effectiveness of work and the duration of work. But it will be [size=-1]compensated by the very fact that everyone will work according to work according to what they can handle.

    Yes, exactly.

    There isn't? Have you never wanted a candy bar before?
    [/size]

    I've noticed this is a common mistake by many inexperienced but self-proclaimed "communists". All I have to say is that this idea is contrary to what Marxists believe in, and that if you want to live like that, I suggest you join a monastery.

    Like Marx said:
    "All I know is that if this is Marxism, then I am not a Marxist."


    It was in reference to the French Workers' Party, which called itself "Marxist", but followed a political line contrary to Marx's views. Today, you are the French Workers' Party.

    When you are living in a society where everyone is working only to provide food and shelter despite having plenty of resources to focus on other areas, but beat you with a stick if you suggest computers be built... Well, I don't want to live in that society.
     
  7. Communism

    Communism Member

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    What do you want to know?
     
  8. Burn

    Burn Member

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    The very basic essentials of communism, and why, at first glance and in history books, it doesn't seem to have worked.
     
  9. Psy Fox

    Psy Fox Member

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    Basic idea is production for the common good instead of the profit of the privileged few. School and history books to some extent is propaganda to defend the status quo, they won't really go into the violence of the state to crush the empowerment of the people both at home and internationally.
     
  10. Burn

    Burn Member

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    Okay, so we continued where we left off with the previous government, except it's ideally for the common good, and there is no, per say, central leader? Right? The distribution of wealth is more equal?
     
  11. Communism

    Communism Member

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  12. Communism

    Communism Member

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    Because history books and "education" represent, at least to some extent, the ideas of the ruling class. Or at least, what they want you to know.

    Let me rephrase:
    The educational system under feudalism represented the ruling class ("the rich") during that time, just as today, the wealthy are those who are in control of society. They create laws, they decide how history books should be written, and the government even put financial restrictions on critical movies/books, and reward those who follow the policy of the ruling class. Movies today get financial support from the government if they add for examle, nationalistic messages in the movies. For example, I remember reading about a movie that received some large sums of money to include the "I WANT YOU!" poster on a phone booth. Some movies, if they depict brave and merciful US soldiers, have received support from the US military. They have been given help in how to perform realistic combat scenes, for instance. Wondered why there are so many american flags in US movies? I don't know for sure, but I think it's pretty obvious.

    The same goes for the educational system. It is controlled by the government, and the government is controlled by the rich. So the rich is actually learning us whatever they want us to be taught. So obviously, if we were to take the wealth out of the multi-billionaires, do you really think they would portray us in a positive light?

    Same goes for newspapers.
     
  13. raven23

    raven23 Member

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    How does anarchy work? read some of the news articles from New Orleans after the hurrican and throw away everything that any academic has ever written about the 'anarchic state'
     
  14. Communism

    Communism Member

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    There are several different "versions", yet there are similarities.

    * The means of production (factories, malls etc.) will be collectivized (this basically means it will be owned and controlled by the community, the people, human beings like you and me). In the now-collectivized shops, you can take what you want. In return, you work in whatever field you do. So here we see society benefiting from the individual, and the individual benefiting from society. It's a natural circle. So instead of choosing a job based on how much money you make, you can actually choose a job you actually like. So there will be no need for money in an anarchist/communist society. We are against money, because we believe it enslave people, and that it is unneccesary in a classless society.

    "Dirty jobs" like maintainance, working in the sever, etc. could be done by the community, instead of some people doing the dirty work all the time. That wouldn't be nice, wouldn't it? Cleaning, 8 hours a day. No. So, everyone would have, say, one or two hours a week doing the dirty jobs.

    * The sick, elderly, etc. would not have any social pressure or anything for doing any work. They can take what they need, like everyone else. So instead of people going sick to their jobs puking, only to collect their lousy paycheck like toay... In today's society, many people are sick, but work, only to delay their eventual collapse. In anarchist/communist society, people can have the time to recover.

    * The state wouldn't really exist, with the government, parliament, state apparatus. Instead, the state is replaced by an administrative organ, which are responsible for logistics (planning, transporation of goods and so forth), collecting data etc. on behalf of the people.

    Here there are many possibilities, but this is how I see it, and I believe I am representing the anarchist and communist movement in general by saying this:
    * The military would most likely be replaced by a people's militia. Say, one out of ten could be in the people's militia, depending on the security level needed. People who volunteer will be elected in the community. They would be more like a homeguard for the community, serving the community, instead of being controlled by the government, serving the corporate elite. Those elected should in my opinion be caring, trustworthy, stable people.

    This is a big contrast to today, where those recruited are often young, easily manipulated people with poor backgrounds, only trained to be professional killers.
     
  15. raven23

    raven23 Member

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    that's all bullshit. who is there to force the rules of anarchy in an anarchic society? Who are the adminstrative organ? true, this picture of anarchy may be like the anarchy emma goldman and so forth espoused, but just cause they call it anarchy doesnt mean that it is. As for the dirty jobs, no one's going to pick up your shit, you're going to be surrounded by it until you pick it up yourself.
    Anarchy isnt pretty and utopian. the strong still dominates in this paradigm. There's nothing to stop that from happening, or it wouldnt be anarchy.
     
  16. Communism

    Communism Member

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    Whatever you say. You asked "How does anarchy work?", and I answered the best way I possibly could.

    The people.

    Normal people elected by the communities.

    Whoopdeshit, someone already does. The difference is, wise guy, is that a person won't pick up garbage day after day, like in today's society.

    Who is "the strong", and why do you believe so?
     
  17. wow.... empathy guy sure departed fast......


    funny how fast someone leaves when their idea is flawed from the ground up.......
     
  18. thumontico

    thumontico Member

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    Communism, communism cannot work without a central administrative body. You say so yourself. What you describe is not anarchy. Anarchy is an absence of any sort of administrative authority that would give order and deal with the logistics of the matter. Why are you pushing this oxymoronic blend of communism and anarchy?

    Anarchical communism is by definition a contradiction.

    Even in a COMPLETELY democratic communism, there IS a government strictly and only by the people. This is also not anarchy.
     
  19. Communism

    Communism Member

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    False.

    False.

    False. By the way, I do not think I ever mentioned "giving orders", nor "administrative authority".

    Because it is the same social system. Why do you ever think communists and anarchists fought side by side during the Russian revolution and the Spanish Civil War? Why do you think marxists and anarchists are allies?

    Oh please explain.

    Anarchism - A stateless, classless society without money or markets, where work is volentarily and people take according to their needs.

    Communism - A stateless, classless society without money or markets, where work is volentarily and people take according to their needs.

    Where is the difference?

    You cannot have communism without democracy.

    False. I would suggest you actually read up on some marxist theory before you... Yes, discuss marxism and communism.
     
  20. thumontico

    thumontico Member

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    Is this just a game of semantics? This is going no where. Define anarchy however you want. The fact is that its just not practical. If you are actually trying to convince people of something it might be a better idea to use a word that has not been tainted (in your view) by hundreds of years of cultural propoganda and the like.

    Explain to me how a centrally planned economy such as communism can exist without a central administration to distribute wealth.

    Communism can and does exist without democracy.

    Why should work be volunatary? What is to protect from a society of free riders?
     
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