"arab internment"

every time america gets scared, we do something unjust out of our fear.

wwii: japanese internment
cold war: black listing
now: "arab internment"...where many innocents are held without trial indefinitely in gitmo and elsewhere.

in 30 years, i bet the majority will feel the shame.

 

dont we already?

 

Personally - at the risk of sounding heartless - I am glad people are being kept in Guantanamo bay.
Too many people have left that place and marched back on the battle field...for us just to release people that are there...because it leaves a bad taste in our mouths.
It shouldn't and it will not be for ever.
So "indefinitely" is a little off the mark, imo.

"arab internment" is a little over the top don't you think?
Obviously not, I guess.

It isn't out of fear it is the very real risk of detainees doing something against innocent people.

I can hear you saying: "Yes, but why not put them on trial?"
Easier said than done

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-benjamin franklin

based on what i remember reading while i was in amnesty international in high school...quite a few of these "terrorist detainees" are nothing more than journalists and political activists.

the term "arab internment"...yeah...i'll agree it's a little dramatic, but i was just trying to draw comparisons to japanese internment.

 

Perhaps it's the herb, but i don't really Get what the quote has to do with the discussion...

i take it as an insult to my intelligence for you to think that the internment that the AMERICAN Japanese people were put into was anything like what these supposed terrorists are being treated to.

This is from Wiki, and the entire article is pretty interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Doesn't sound much like Gitmo to me...

 

Also, as long as countries/groups need to have secrets from each other,

there WILL be some sort of Spying going on,

and there will be times when the interrogation techniques used on the douche bag bad guys will be rather harsh.

(If you think it is too harsh, think of what you might want done to someone that had information on your missing 9 year old daughter's whereabouts... Yeah ~ it's like that, sometimes.)

And who has to DO the deeds? Does the military advertise around it's ranks for semi-sadistic, well built, racist assholes?

No. Whoever's "Up" gets the job.

War is not pretty.

It's not fun.

 

i'm a firm believer in civil liberties regardless of circumstance. i mean, of course harsher interrogation tactics are going to produce better results. of course keeping people without trial is going to keep some people behind bars that belong there that wouldn't be there otherwise. but where does it stop? i mean, i bet if we dipped every suspected terrorist's balls in sulfuric acid, i'd imagine we'd get even better leads on terrorist cells than with waterboarding, but there's something call civility. a civilized society shouldn't torture. a civilized society should follow it's constitution always and not make unnecessary exceptions in times of fear.

there's a reason certain things are illegal in peacetime, and we shouldn't make wartime exceptions just because we're afraid. i mean...imagine what would happen if we were openly invaded. what then? tear up the bill of rights?

as far as the quotation being irrelevant...i think it's very relevant...have you ever read 1984?

my point is basically this: america gets into conflict, we get scared, we do things we later find were distasteful and i think that the things done in gitmo and other places like gitmo as well as changes brought about by the patriot act are going to fall into that category in due time.

 

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But what you're saying is: You have no problem with using harsh interrogation techniques...

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however, if those tactics offend you (and/or anyone around you), then they are just too harsh.

That's like you saying to someone, "Okay, i'll have sex with you for a million bucks!"

and that someone looking right back at you and saying, "Okay, sugar, now that we've established what you are, let's talk about a reasonable price."

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idk about you, but if i fear a storm a-comin', i take EXTRA precautions to safeguard my ability to enjoy my big, fat rights. If i'm maimed or dead, my rights don't really mean much.

i feel like i have the right to protect myself, and if that means stopping folks at the front gate to ask questions, i'm down with it. If they want to put up a flippin' fight over a few questions, and it's worth their lives, then i'm just a tad curious about why that might be...

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If we're openly invaded, with any luck, all the rest of the douche bag bad guys, (who are in the sub-human internment camps, being tortured to the point of revealing important information), have given us a pretty good pic of what to look for, and where to look for it.

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i lived in 1984. In fact, i was 29/30 in 1984. :rofl:

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And my point is this: People with a couple of brain cells to rub together try to PREPARE themselves for the coming storm.

i think we have to agree to disagree, okay? i'm pretty wasted right now, and reading a really good book ~ The Darkest Evening of the Year ~

so

later daze!

 

Wow. What in God's name do you know about being interned?

As an American, you know what it's like to be imprisoned and plucked from your life? That's not anything like being imprisoned and held without trial in Gitmo?

Unbelievable Fyrenza. And yes, it is the herb.

 

I dont have a problem with the jap interments or the muslims in gitmo. fuck em.

 

Since you evidently didn't bother to read the article,

quite a bit more than you do, i'd guess.

It might prove a bit hard to be imprisoned, AND THEN "plucked from" my life.

Read some articles about the Japanese internment ~ it was ALL of the Japanese peeps along the west coast that were interned. And the horrible imprisonment was so bad that Japanese folks that weren't being forced to wanted IN.

At Gitmo, we are holding folks because they are suspected terrorists; we are NOT rounding up every Middle Eastern person.

At Gitmo, the suspected terrorists are being tortured for any information we might be able to get from them.

On and on.

How the two could be compared is sort of mind-boggling to me ~ they are/were SO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT situations.

Whatever.

i'll just get on back to my herb and let you true intellectuals discuss this earth shattering topic.

:sifone: :sifone:

 

Your stark ignorance is showing.

Have you ever talked to someone in an internment camp in their own country? Because I've talked to these Japanese internment camp survivors.

Most of them that wanted in, were wanting to SEE THEIR FAMILIES.

They were held in confinement WITHOUT ANY CIVIL RIGHTS AS CITIZENS OF THE USA. For what reason can you justify this astounding violation of human rights, Fyrenza?

Please, give me your most high and mighty rationalization for imprisoning TOTALLY INNOCENT human beings and then claiming that it's nothing compared to GUANTANAMO BAY.

 

just because they did it willingly...hell, even patriotically...doesn't make it any better of a thing to have happened.

i've honestly never heard someone defend japanese internment before in my life. it's a dark mark on american history to 99.9% of people.

 

Why would you say that?

If it was by CHOICE, because of NECESSITY,

what you're saying just spits in the patriotic faces of every one of those folks that did it, WILLINGLY, in order to HELP.

i would do it.

If someone threw a grenade into my little piece of bunker heaven, i'd dive on it in a heartbeat to save the other folks around me.

Is making someone understand that jumping onto a live grenade is a good thing, a good thing in itself?

Not really. That's kamikaze talk, pal.

But in the situation, is having someone understand that jumping onto that live grenade will actually SAVE LIVES in the long run, a "good thing?"

Hell, yes it is.

We can't sit in judgement of what folks did in the past;

all we can do is learn from the mistakes, and try not to repeat them.

But you're going to have to use better analogies, because the Japanese internment and Gitmo are apples and oranges, as the saying goes.

What can i say? (btw =What can i say? to me)

 

Jesus Christ Fyrenza.

Go back from whatever hellhole you came from.

If you think Japanese internment was justified, then just GTFO of this thread and leave it for people who actually want to debate the issue instead of listening to your soapbox diatribe on the history of the Japanese.

 

These people need to be tried, instead of arguing on whether to release them, or to shut down gitmo, or where they'll go, we should be arguing on what they should be charged with and how they shall be tried. How well a state functions can partly be seen in how well it follows it's own national beliefs.

And I just realized this thread was apparently more then just the Arabs who are being held indefintely.

But no really no can defend the Japanese internment, it can be explained by mass hysteria, but that doesn't make it right.

 

Don't blame herb for that shit Ari...

As for if it is the 'same' as gitmo... no it isn't really... because when the americans did this to their fellow americans, they didnt just lock them up, they also stole everything they owned.

Having said that... none of it has anything to do with the original thought.

Is what was said... and yes, the detainments at gitmo are unjust. Not only is it unjust, it is based upon the most highly UN-intelligent reasoning in the world. By the theory that has been used to lock people up there, every single person who has ever been in a war against the US is a terrorist (to america).

Whether you think the war was just or unjust, whether you think it was warranted or a little boy trying to make his daddy proud, doesn't change that it was WAR... In war, people fight, otherwise it wouldn't be called war, it would be called diplomacy. And ever enemy combatant is NOT a terrorist, no matter what some of the more freaked out, paranoid 'people' (and I use that word very loosely here) may think of it.

that 15 year old boy who is there for throwing a grenade at soldiers just watched familiy members get killed in their own home by those soldiers...

That is not terrorism, that is war.

The most terrorism that has been seen on this planet in the last couple of decades has been perpetrated by the american government on their own people, and those who don't recognize it, should really pull their head out of whereever they have had it shoved....

 

Free Omar Khadr! He's a Canadian citizen you Yanks!

 

That isn't true.
I know AI would like us to believe them and make believe nobody is bad in "Gitmo"...It being the worst place on earth. But it isn't.
I think I remember AI complaining "Gitmo" was torture because it was boring. I kid you not. "Gitmo" is putting people in torturous conditions because it is boring. What ever next?

Japenese internment put ALL of a certain predicament behind the wire.
This isn't. It isn't the same. Not even close.

 

this isn't unjust action carried out due to mass hysteria that we'll later be shameful for?