- B.G. Ch. XII Bhakti Yoga (Union by Devotion)

I was wondering if anyone who has not read the Bhagavad Gita before
would read this part, its short, just a chapter on Devotion Service and
Love of God. If you have read it, then maybe you wouldn't mind
commenting on the precepts laid down by Krsna to Arjuna in relation
to an acid trip? Because I feel that these states of mind are in direct
relation to giving into the loss of the minor self, and I feel that a
psychedelic trip itself can be a mirror of one's entire life, feelings of
being born, re-born, learned, pain, age, death, etc. in a few short
hours. Anyway, yea, here it is
(By the way, keep in mind that Krsna is not some person who actually
existed as a real God that told this teaching, but rather that He is
the aspect of Divinity within all of us to whom we focus the soul during
dhyana rather than the ego and the internal and external manifestations
of activity. Arjuna is all of us who want to know God, Krsna is the
Source of the Nature of Mind Essence ((creation itself)) and the battle
of Kurukshetra is the grounds of the mental plane on which those of
us who are devotees go to war everyday. I realize there is the 'As
It Is' version that denounces this esoteric interpretation of the Gita,
but in all honesty, look at if for what it is. Arjuna and his brothers
and mother represtent the Chakras, Krsna is his Soul, and the
opposing forces are the sense attachments and desires which prevent
Divine Union.)

Arjuna said:
Those ever-steadfast devotees
Who thus worship You
And those who worship
The eternal unmanifest Brahman,
Which of these has the best knowledge of yoga?


Krishna said:
Those ever steadfast devotees who worship
With supreme faith by fixing
Their mind on Me as personal God,
I consider them to be the best yogis.


But those who worship the imperishable,
The undefinable, the unmanifest, the omnipresent,
The unthinkable, the unchanging, the immovable,
And the eternal Brahman;


Restraining all the senses,
Even minded under all circumstances,
Engaged in the welfare
Of all creatures, they also attain Me.


Self-realization is more difficult
For those who fix their mind on the formless Brahman,
Because the comprehension of the unmanifest Brahman
By the average embodied human being is very difficult.


But, to those who worship Me as the personal God,
Renouncing allactions to Me;
Setting Me as their supreme goal,
and meditating onMe with single minded devotion;


I swiftly become their savior,
From the world that is the ocean
Of death and transmigration,
Whose thoughts are set on Me, O Arjuna.


Therefore, focus your mind on Me alone
And let your intellect dwell upon Me
Through meditation and contemplation.
Thereafter you shall certainly come to Me.


If you are unable to meditate steadily on Me,
Then seek to reach Me, O Arjuna,
By practice of spiritual discipline.


If you are unable even to do any Sadhana,
Then be intent on performing your duty for Me.
You shall attain perfection just by working for Me


If you are unable to work for Me
Then just surrender unto My will with subdued mind,
And renounce the fruits of all work.


Knowledge is better than mere ritualistic practice,
Meditation is better than mere knowledge,
Renunciation of the fruit of work
Is better than meditation,
Peace immediately follows the renunciation
Of the fruit of work.


One who does not hate any creature,
Who is friendly and compassionate,
Free from (the notion of) "I" and "my',
Even-minded in pain and pleasure, forgiving.


The yogi who is ever content,
Who has subdued the mind,
Whose resolve is firm, whose mind and intellect
Are engaged in dwelling upon Me;
Such a devotee is dear to Me.


The one by whom others are not agitated,
And who is not agitated by others;
Who is free from joy, envy, fear, and anxiety;
Is also dearto Me.


One who is free from desires;
Who is pure, wise, impartial, and free from anxiety;
Who has renounced all undertakings;
And who is devoted to Me, is dear to Me.


One who neither rejoices nor grieves,
Neither likes nor dislikes,
Who has renounced both the good and the evil,
And who is full of devotion, such a person is dear to Me.


The one who remains the same
Towards friend or foe, in honor or disgrace,
In heat or cold, in pleasure or pain;
Who is free from attachment; and


The one who is indifferent or silent
In censure or praise, content with anything,
Unattached to a place, equanimous,
And full of devotion; that person is dear to Me.


But those devotees who have faith
And sincerely try to develop
The above mentioned immortal virtues,
And set Me as their supreme goal; are very dear to Me.

 

i read in Lessons from Queen Kunti that women cannot philosophise.
indeed it is rare to find an orange-woman

 

Yea, and I read in the Science of Self-Realization that the guru is
to be treated as equal to God simply because of the guru's status
as an incarnation of divine receptivity.
Did jesus allow Himself to be treated as God? No, not only did he
not but He taught against the very foundation which has replaced
His message in the modern world. We are equal, dont worship the
man worship God, this kind of thing.
The reality is that Krsna is not and never was the person that
He is depicted as in all of the cantos and scriptures. If He was a
person, He was a simple teacher of Love just like the rest of them.
They are fun stories to read but they are created in order that
the masses can comprehensivley have a focal point of worship,
as is said in the very chapter I just posted "Conceiving Brhama
is very difficult for human beings."
Vedavyasa ( A master of self discipline, yoga, poetry, and wisdom)
wrote the Gita and made this imagery to symbolize the practice
of yoga in a way everyone can understand. But every word is
lieterally leaking with much deeper truth than one can even begin
to understand in one's entire lifetime.

 

a union between myself and god does not need a middle man.


... your post sounds like the same bullshit the christians try to feed you when they say you must accept jesus christ as your lord and savior to get into heaven.

 

:sigh:
There is no middle man 3xi, that is what I just explained
clearly before posting the poem itself.
Krsna is a representation of God within us, not an external
Deity to be worshipped. Basically, what that means, is
there is no middle man, but your soul alone that is to
be yoked to God, and Krsna represents all of our souls.
Soundling like bullshit means that you just didnt gather
what was being taught, and were too quick to jump to
the conclusion that this is brainwashing dogma. Trust
me, if you would open your mind up a little deeper and
really read the Gita for what it is representing and not
as a fairy tale with a man who claims to be God, you
would see what Im talking about. But, though the book
was written to appeal to the masses who cant actually
mentally gather the depth of the message, still people
are not all together ready to receive it.
3xi there is no middle man to God, I dont understand
how you came up with this after I clearly explained it,
but maybe you can rethink your position and try reading
it in the manner that I just explained?

 

I cannot get the phrase "from the world that is the ocean..." out of my mind, it's really beautiful
These are the parts that are more meaningful to me and I the wisest words here are "Free from (the notion of) I and my, even minded in pain and pleasure, forgiving". I love how simple and deep the Gita is, you read it, you understand it, but over all things, you feel it.
I just feel whenever I read it, like there's not much I can say, it has all been said and all I need to do is absorb silently.

 

Thats my favorite part 2 Aura. Really this is my favorite
chapter as a whole out of the enitre poem.

 

krishna says very clearly that those who fix their mind on him as a personal god will be the best yogis.


why do we need him? that is a middle man.

you dont even understand your own faith. i kinda knew that already but whatever - not like you will ever listen to what i have to say on the subject.

 

Yes, Krsna says such a thing, as a representation to God
in the manner of the Universal Form.
I dont understand my own faith? 3xi, this thread is NOT
about the discussion of religion or faith, nor about my
mental capacity to comprehend the subject of a book
on which I have read more than 10 translations and
explanations on, and have devoted my entire life to
breaking apart and fitting into practice.
Please, if you are going to only come in the thread with
your personal attack, insults to a persona faith, and
contribute NOTHING to the topic of the thread (the
question of "How does this relate with and correspond
to an LSD trip" in case you havent noticed) then leave
before I report you for being off topic.
I never reported anyone before but you appear to be
bent on derailing my thread and whenever I post in
this forum, you purposley attack my opinion.
So either answer the question that was asked or I
have no choice but to report you. And I could really
care less what you think of that action should I
chose to follow through it.

 

to answer your question then...

personally - krishna has no place in my life or in any psychedelic trip. that is what i was getting at with the middle man stuff. sorry i didnt spell it out for you.

i really dont mean to ruin your thread. people go off subject all the time in these threads.(and i didnt really go off subject at all - i offered my personal perspective as i see it relates to the subject) if you were secure enough in your belief it wouldnt bother you to hear my perspective. personally i dont think that an LSD thread is any place to preach religion... but whatever - i am not going to complain anymore than i already have.

i will leave it at that - i understand why this is a very important issue with you and i am sorry that i upset you. i dont mean to disrespect you as a person - i just feel it is my place to offer my perspective on the subject at hand. my beliefs are different than yours. if you dont want to hear peoples perspectives on religion you probably shouldnt talk about it in a public forum.

 

if i may just say... i think LSD has allowed something akin to a religious (or certainly spiritual anyway) experience in many people, and sometimes they use this forum to discuss that. for me it was natural to try and integrate what i had learned on my trips with the beliefs i had at the time. (i no longer have those beliefs, but i remember the desire to fit it all together somehow).

i think that the words used are not quite as important as the concepts they point to. this is really what is happening in any discussion. a lot of times people actually mean the same thing, but misunderstand the semantics.

relayer: if something someone posts upsets me, i always look to see why am i becoming upset - why has the nerve been touched? in this way, the posts that seem to derail my thinking are the best gifts: they show me a clear mirror in which i can see if i have developed a large wart on my nose that is blocking my vision and needs to be attended to, if you see what i mean.

lots of :love: to all of you; keep shining, :sunny: keep dancing :dance:

 

3xi, and denise, I am not trying to spread bad energy or
negativity here, but I tried to start a humble discussion
on what I find to be a direct explanation of how to handle
an LSd trip contained in the words of the Gita, and the
first response I got was not only off topic and avoiding
any answer or opinion to the question asked, and the
second response I got was an attack on my belief and
an insult by saying it sounds like bullshit.

I am not offended by 3xi's remarks, me and him have
gone at it enough times that it doesnt bother me.
What bothers me is that when a person comes to see
my thread, they are going to see nothing but negativity
and a complete lack of any purposeful or insightful
conversation going on, and my purpose is destroyed
if people are put off by this lack of substance.

And I also realize that threads go off topic, but this is
ok when a thread is discussed properly and the general
interest goes in another direction. I just find it unfair
that mine was not even given a chance.

And 3xi, talking about religion and belief with an opinion
IS accetable in this forum, and you have the right to think
what you want about that but your opinion has only one
intention, and that is to deny someone a place to speak.
Your words dont hurt me, they made me annoyed because
they have no place here.
This is not about religion, this is about a poem that I feel
discusses ego-death at length, and I wanted to compare,
not religious notes, but the obvious correlation that is present
in the words.

 

your right, thanx for the wonderful insight :ears: you are an:Angel:

 

If you are unable to meditate steadily on Me,
Then seek to reach Me, O Arjuna,
By practice of spiritual discipline.


If you are unable even to do any Sadhana,
Then be intent on performing your duty for Me.
You shall attain perfection just by working for Me

Ok anyway, if anyone is even interested, this is a
very interesting line, because what is being said
is that if you have trouble with finding your Self
during meditation, you can find your Self through
bhakti or karma yoga, working without any other
reason or expectation than love. Not to do work
for money or for respect, but to work to be
helpful and devote your results to God alone.

And I think that with LSD, the entire point of
taking the drug is to learn how to let go of your
attachment, desire, and personality, in order
to let the drug consume you that you may ride
it out to the deepest part of the trip, the
bottom of the deep end in the pool, if you will.
I feel life is the same way on a much grander
scale, where when you only work for material
or emotional profit, misery will follow and your
motivation will go out with window, leaving
one with many regrets later in life.

Satisfaction is something that many, many
human beings have no concept of, nor how
to grasp and remain in a state of, and I feel
that we need to learn how to find inner
satisfaction as soon as possible so we can
better deal with other people and be content
with what and who we are, and what we have
going for us at the present moment.

All of your life has lead you up to this exact
moment, if its not in misery right now, then
why worry? What else can you possible need?
God fulfills those needs when meditation is
done by sending love to Him/Her.

 

I actually find that part quite helpful because I've always felt like I'm not good with my meditations, when I try to do them, maybe what I need is more dedication.
I do find easy to work out of love, of course there are certains moments when it comes harder, I dont want to say trying because that's not what Im doing, but reaffirming that my actions are inspired by real love. To give and let go, it's a daily practice and must be done without any expectations, as long as we expect anything we are bound to be dissapointed. It's easier said, than done, but I think it is what allows us, like you said to have that inner satisfaction. It should never be focused on external things, because then it's only temporary and is just the illusion of it, causing our unhappiness.
One thing I remember, maybe you remember too. When we did the mushrooms, I dont remember what I was talking about or trying to say, but I remember saying "I want to say I ...(whatever I was gonna say), but I feels so wrong right now". It made think of how being free from the notion of the I and my, becomes so much easier while using psychedelics and I think is something we need to carry with us, after our trip

 

i think 3xi is doing what too many people do and is just taking this text too literally. religious texts are not meant to be taken completely literally, or else you will totally overlook the intellectual aspect which underlies the writing and is the fundamental part of it to begin with..

"Me", at least how i see it is sort of an anthropomorphism.. i guess it makes it easier to relate to what the Me is supposed to be.
after all, i think it's been said that we are the Me, or that the "Me" is inside all of us?

maybe i got it wrong, if there is a right or wrong.. but i found it to be a great read. enlightening if you will heh..