Biblical Authority

I have a simple question for all the Christians here.

What gives the Bible its authority and truth? What makes it true but the Qur'an or the Vedas false? Don't answer "because it's the word of God, the others aren't" because that is stated IN THE BIBLE. A source can't validate itself, it's like saying "I'm right because I say I am." So what makes the Christian right, but the Muslim or Hindu wrong, when each says their sacred scripture contains God's Truth?

Simple as this question is, I've never gotten a straight answer.

 

because it is the word of the true God...

 

How do you know the Bible is true?
-It was inspired by God

How do you know the Bible was inpired by God?
-Archaeologic, Scientific, Prophetic proof (Things humans simply could not know-only God)

The proofs are all explained in the link in my signiture... this is what campbell and I have been trying to explain since him and I have been here...

The Bible is what seperates Christianity from all other relgions... No other book can compare.

 

There are examples of archaeological evidence that show certain parts of the Bible to be exaggerations at best, falsehoods at worst, such as the Jews being in Egypt as slaves, or leaving in a mass migration. And I'd never in a million years turn to the Bible for anything scientific, as it is often wrong (flat earth, 4 legged insects, etc)

A Muslim or Hindu would say the same thing. Why are they wrong and you are right?

And actually, I've seen Islamic sites that are just as confident of their rightness as your christian link. Passionate belief is not proof to me.

 

TrippinBTM,

"There are examples of archaeological evidence that show certain parts of the Bible to be exaggerations at best, falsehoods at worst, such as the Jews being in Egypt as slaves, or leaving in a mass migration. And I'd never in a million years turn to the Bible for anything scientific, as it is often wrong (flat earth, 4 legged insects, etc)"

-WoW you obviously do not no anything about the Bible. Here is your archaeological proof... Remember when God split the Red Sea for the Israelites but then collapsed it when Pharoh's army went through? Well it turns out a number of people have found Chariots, Chariot wheels, Spears, and human remains on the bottom of the Red Sea. And much more archaeologiccal finds outside of the water.

Above, left, photo taken of a gilded chariot wheel that remains on the sea floor. It was found by Ron Wyatt using a molecular frequency generator from his boat above, after he set the equipment to search for gold. The Bible said all the chariots of Egypt and 600 choice chariots, or gold veneered models, were in the army pursuing God's people. It is speculated there were 20,000 chariots destroyed that day. Above, right, is a drawing of a four spoke chariot found in an Egyptian tomb from the same time period. Four and six spoke wheels are found here in the gulf, and were only used at the same time during the 18th dynasty or 1400 BC when the exodus took place. There are numerous chariot wheels, plus human and horse bones at the crossing site (http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm).
​

Now for the Science, the Bible never said that the earth was flat(I have NO idea where you go that) Infact, the Bible says the complete opposite thousands of years before people came to know that the ear was round.

• Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
• Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
• Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
• Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
• Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
• Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
• Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
• Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
• Gravitational field (Job 26:7)
• and many others.

"A Muslim or Hindu would say the same thing. Why are they wrong and you are right?

And actually, I've seen Islamic sites that are just as confident of their rightness as your christian link. Passionate belief is not proof to me."

-Yeah passionate belief is not proof to meeither that is why I am a Christian. The Bible is what seperates Christianity from all other religions because it has proof-solid evidence-fulfilled prophecies-something other relgions lack.

 

Excellent post, look forward to seeing more post like this one. Keep up the good work. Wish we had more thinking people like you here.

 

yes....jesusdied4u....ur an amazing person....your posts never cease to amaze me....

 

Well, first, it isn't the Red Sea. Thats a mistranslation, it's meant to say Reed Sea. You won't believe me anyways. I'm not going to argue with a Fundie who just says the same thing over and over. Does anyone else have anything to add to this thread?

By the way, go read:

Psalm 96:10, 1 Chronicles 16:30, among others = Earth doesn't move
Job 37:18 = The sky is a solid object
Isaiah 40:22 = God sits ON the sky (vault of heaven)
Genesis 7:11, Genesis 8:2, Isaiah 24:18-19 = the Sky, as a solid object, has windows to let water down.
Daniel 4:7-11 = The Earth can be seen in it's entirity from a tall tree, thus must be flat.
Jeremiah 51:16 = the earth has ends, and the wind comes from storehouses

 

Many believe that a knee-deep, reedy marsh at the north end of the Red Sea was the site of their crossing. Some (such as James Moffatt) even go as far as to call this area the "Reed Sea," claiming that "Red Sea" is a mistranslation. But by examining the bible, we can prove that the Israelites did indeed cross the Red Sea.
1 Kings 9:26 shows that King Solomon based a "navy of ships...on the shore of the Red Sea." In this verse, the Hebrew for "Red Sea" is yam suph_which is the same name given to the Red Sea in Exodus 15, verse 4 and 22. Thus, the verses must be talking about the same body of water. Did Solomon store his navy on a marshy, shallow lake?
Exodus 14:21-22 offers even stronger evidence that crossing yam suph was not tantamount to wading in a small lake. Notice the descriprion of what the Israelites witnessed: "Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea into dry land, and the waters were divided. So the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on the dry ground, and the waters were a wall to them on their right hand and on their left"
I might point out at this time that the real Red Sea crossing site was discovered a few years ago by Ron Wyatt. Marking the site are two 17 foot columns believed put up there by Solomon thousands of years ago. Near the columns are ancient inscriptions which describe the crossing. The writings describe the same event found in the bible. The columns are found on oppsite shores. Divers are now discovering the remnants of Pharaoh's army between the columns. To see more just type in. (Red Sea Crossing Ron Wyatt)

 

Psalm 96:10 Earth doesn't move. Let me try and explain this. It should be obvious what is being said here. God placed the earth in our solar system, and this is where it will remain. Reading anything more into this statement is a stretch.

Job 37:18 The sky is a solid object. No where in this verse does it state that the sky is a solid object. Obvious misreading on your part. It states, the sky strong as a molten looking glass. Molten looking glass not a solid object. It is describing the sky's appearence. Molten is not a solid.

Isaiah 40:22 God sits on the sky. So does a helicopter. Do you believe in helicopters? P.S. God can sit where ever he wants.

Isaiah 24:18-19 The sky has windows to let the water down. According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary. Window- A range of wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum to which a planet's atmosphere is transparent. Believe it or not, a window can be more than framed glass.

Daniel 4:7 The Earth can be seen in it's entirity from a tall tree, thus must be flat. Please before you try and disprove the bible with this stupid stuff would you take the time to read it. What was be described here was something that a man by the name of Belteshazzar saw in a dream.

Jeremiah 51:16 The earth has ends. Have you never herd of the term end's of the earth. A common expression even today. It means the farthest parts from where one would be standing.

Sorry, but your going to have to do better than this.

 

Amen brother. Nothing here left for me to say.

 

Psalm 96:10 Earth doesn't move. Let me try and explain this. It should be obvious what is being said here. God placed the earth in our solar system, and this is where it will remain. Reading anything more into this statement is a stretch.

Youre the one reading into it. It says literally, the earth is immovable. It does not say "it wont move away from this general area" which is actually a huge space, billions of square miles.

Job 37:18 The sky is a solid object. No where in this verse does it state that the sky is a solid object. Obvious misreading on your part. It states, the sky strong as a molten looking glass. Molten looking glass not a solid object. It is describing the sky's appearence. Molten is not a solid.

That's not what it says. It says "hard as a brazen mirror" meaning hard as a bronze mirror (mirrors back then were made of polished bronze). Those tend to be hard.

Isaiah 24:18-19 The sky has windows to let the water down. According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary. Window- A range of wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrum to which a planet's atmosphere is transparent. Believe it or not, a window can be more than framed glass.

They mean openings. In a hard vaulted sky. Like windows in a ceiling. Youre taking it all out of context and skewing the meaning to make it work in your mind. Clearly the ancients didn't know about wavelengths of an electromagnetic spectrum. You realize this when you read it in context, but you won't do that because you have to be right, even if it means lying.

Jeremiah 51:16 The earth has ends. Have you never herd of the term end's of the earth. A common expression even today. It means the farthest parts from where one would be standing.

Ends of the earth is a term that holds over from when they thought it was flat. It's used now as a metaphor. You, though, are just evading the issue.

 

Well, move the earth then.
Job 26


Job

1 Then Job replied:

2 "How you have helped the powerless!
How you have saved the arm that is feeble!
3 What advice you have offered to one without wisdom!
And what great insight you have displayed!
4 Who has helped you utter these words?
And whose spirit spoke from your mouth?

5 "The dead are in deep anguish,
those beneath the waters and all that live in them.
6 Death [1] is naked before God;
Destruction [2] lies uncovered.
7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing.
8 He wraps up the waters in his clouds,
yet the clouds do not burst under their weight.
9 He covers the face of the full moon,
spreading his clouds over it.
10 He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters
for a boundary between light and darkness.
11 The pillars of the heavens quake,
aghast at his rebuke.
12 By his power he churned up the sea;
by his wisdom he cut Rahab to pieces.
13 By his breath the skies became fair;
his hand pierced the gliding serpent.
14 And these are but the outer fringe of his works;
how faint the whisper we hear of him!
Who then can understand the thunder of his power?"

Funny, a suspended earth under nothing....wonder how he would know that back then?

Anyways, that scripture also leads into you bronze mirror. Throughout he is talking asking how are we to know how God does these things. In chapter 37 he goes on talking about God's powers and then towards the verse you mention, there is a challenge. Read along:

Job 37
1 "At this my heart pounds
and leaps from its place.
2 Listen! Listen to the roar of his voice,
to the rumbling that comes from his mouth.
3 He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven
and sends it to the ends of the earth.
4 After that comes the sound of his roar;
he thunders with his majestic voice.
When his voice resounds,
he holds nothing back.
5 God's voice thunders in marvelous ways;
he does great things beyond our understanding.
6 He says to the snow, 'Fall on the earth,'
and to the rain shower, 'Be a mighty downpour.'
7 So that all men he has made may know his work,
he stops every man from his labor. [1]
8 The animals take cover;
they remain in their dens.
9 The tempest comes out from its chamber,
the cold from the driving winds.
10 The breath of God produces ice,
and the broad waters become frozen.
11 He loads the clouds with moisture;
he scatters his lightning through them.
12 At his direction they swirl around
over the face of the whole earth
to do whatever he commands them.
13 He brings the clouds to punish men,
or to water his earth [2] and show his love.

14 "Listen to this, Job;
stop and consider God's wonders.
15 Do you know how God controls the clouds
and makes his lightning flash?
16 Do you know how the clouds hang poised,
those wonders of him who is perfect in knowledge?
17 You who swelter in your clothes
when the land lies hushed under the south wind,
18 can you join him in spreading out the skies,
hard as a mirror of cast bronze?

19 "Tell us what we should say to him;
we cannot draw up our case because of our darkness.
20 Should he be told that I want to speak?
Would any man ask to be swallowed up?
21 Now no one can look at the sun,
bright as it is in the skies
after the wind has swept them clean.
22 Out of the north he comes in golden splendor;
God comes in awesome majesty.
23 The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power;
in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress.
24 Therefore, men revere him,
for does he not have regard for all the wise in heart? [3] "

I read this is 2 different ways. Either 1) he is asking him if he can join God in spreading out the skies and saying it would be as hard as mirror cast of bronze to to this.....or...2) cab he help God spread out the skies to be as hard as a mirror cast of bronze. When I read this, do not see him sayign the sky is as hard as a mirror cast of bronze.

What you need to do is to learn to read before and after a scipture you want to use. This idea was taught to me in pre k. Perhaps others learned it in middle school. I don't know. What I do know, is that you have misunderstood the whole of the meaning.

I gota go to work, you all have a great day.

 

First, I never said I could move the earth, and it's pretty lame for you to challenge me to do it. Just saying that the Bible says it is immovable, which is wrong. I don't take the bible literally, but you people do so I'm trying to show how useless it is to do so.

Second, the way that verse is stated doesn't imply hard to mean "difficult." It, by it's context, clearly means 'solid.' If it wanted to connote 'difficult' it would have been stated "hard as forming a mountain by hand" or something. It's would be easy to find out if we looked at the original Hebrew word, but it seems pretty obvious nonetheless.

 

Hey trippin any thoughts on the RED Sea? Or did Campbell just prove your theory wrong?

 

Im going to chime in with a few quick comments...

The belief that the 'Reed/Red Sea' being a 'mistranslation' is actually a mistranslation in itself.
What you DID see was a 'speculation' on one of these 'Mysteries of the Bible' type shows.
Someone simply 'Speculated' that because 'Reed' and 'Red' are similar sounding words, then 'possibly' Moses meant to write 'Reed' Sea.

As Arsenio might put it - Things that make you go 'Hmmmm?' Problem is - Reed and Red are not 'almost identical' words in Hebrew.

Amazingly, someone is absolutely convinced that its actually 'Reed Sea' simply because they recall someone speculating a 'What if' question on a History Channel programme.
--------------------------------

The word used to describe the skies is not literally 'A Strainer' - although it can also have that same 'reference'.
Hebrew Scholars say it is something like 'A Shield being beaten out of metal' or 'Pushing out a bowl' or ' The shape and 'expanse' inside a metal strainer' etc.
These are the feelings behind 'Rakia' and 'Spread or Expanse' would be the closest ideas.
'Firmament' being another popular translation.

One poster here is such an unbending wooden Fundamentalist that he is actually translating the meaning as if it refered to a Solid underside of a Metal Shield (and therefore actual metal shield covering the sky)

Sorry to see that kind of ultra-strict fundie interpretation here!

..........

Oh, and as for the Earth being fixed in its place - it IS.

That is part of the reason we can take the risk of printing up new calendards for next year.... or predict when to see comets or eclipses people!
The Earth will not be moved from its place and thank God because otherwise we would go flying off into the milky way.
btw.. yes, we now know the Suns gravity is so powerful the Earth could not be moved - just because God didnt specify why doesnt make it any less true folks.

 

coulldnt agree more but on that note if you look at it all and the ancient scriptures no were does it say there was only one god just one god to follow and science validates a lot in the bible but the modern christian believe is not validated just that there are some truths in the bible

 

your veiw that science agree proves some things in the bible does not make its conclusion correct.
science proves most of whats in chalse darwins origon of species to be correct but that doesnt mean his conclusion is correct.

 

I'm no bible scholor nor a hebrew language expert, I apologize for any ignorance I've shown.

That said, it was never my intent to start arguing over scripture. I was hoping for an answer to my original question, why christians are right when they say their scriptures are Truth, but the Muslims, Hindus, or whomever else are wrong when they say the same thing. They even tend to use the same arguments as Christians, and I wanted to know what makes them wrong.

 

there all right to some degree and science verifys islam too
hell they even start with the same old testament
as for cristians over jews well jesus doesnt fit the bill for being gods son theres a missing link here just like in darwins theorys. jesus just yoused god to get more followers he was on his own and unlike his so called father had something good in mind