Big Three Bailout Dead

So the automakers bailout isn't going to happen. And I'm glad. Let 'em die. It's a sign that we, like the Titanic, are headed for the bottom. So we can rise from the ashes. Or maybe just burn for a while. Either way we need a good cleansing and this is it.

Take heart, Americans. It's not the end. It's the beginning.

 

That thought is not going to keep people warm this winter.

 

and these people have no one to blame but themselves. The US love affair with bigger, better, more that has been going on for decades will now take its toll. Those who progagated and participated and those who were not prepared will suffer. Darwin always wins in the end.

 

I had sympaphy for them as it is the workers and the communities that would suffer not the fat cats.

BOT...to fail because the union refused to develop a plan to eventually get wage parity with the US workers of honda, Toyota, etc. is just crazy. If they go under, what wages do you get then.

So now I say f%^& 'em! They are now as much to blame as the CEO.

Alternately force the union to let their members vote on the pay issue. If its rejected this time then shut it down.

 

Well, looks like it might still happen.

It appears as though the UAW who represent domestic GM, Chrysler and Ford workers weren't willing to negotiate less in pay than the foreign auto workers they don't represent like Honda and Toyota/Lexus.

There is talk about tapping into some of the Wall Street $700 billion bailout cash flow that will be put towards their meager little bailout request.

Did anyone hear the President of UAW speak today? There was an anonymous email from the Republic Senate offices that detailed very biased and shrewd attitude towards negotiations with the UAW. How very typical.

 

Bailing out the auto industry without forcing them to switch to clean, renewable alternative fuels is a bad idea. Wall Street will allow them whatever they want as long as it causes the supply and demand of petroleum product to continue. And that is a very bad idea.

No one in this "democratically-controlled" congress has the guts to make it happen. The only balls involved are on the big three and they are in a vise. Tighten it.

 

I am still amazed that Dem gave up the Stop the Lawsuits vs. Ca due to emissions.

Mindless! Lets pay the lawyers more.

 

ive already told yall the final result of this WILL be the nationalization of them.

this is already in the works. (google is your friend)

they couldnt pass the bailout.
the plans are much bigger than letting them remain wholly owned by the private sector.

 

The future of the Republican Party is now synonymous with the fate of the Auto-industry.

No reasonable person can believe the Republican Party created this mess, no single entity created this mess. Especially not the U.A.W.

But the Republicans have made a point (an idiological point that is identical with their governing philosophy) of refusing to do anything to prevent the economic collapse of GM, which would then put Chrysler and Ford at risk of collapse.

If the Auto industry collapses, leaving as many as three million people unemployed, and effecting many more, then the Republican Party's governing philosophy will be directly identified with the suffering of millions.

It seems it may be too late to avoid the damage. I hope we will all live better than the difficult times that await us.

Peace and Love

 

Let them walk the same road that others have had to walk. Declaring bankruptcy hurts for a reason, but it's not the end of the world.

Law of the jungle remains. Survival of the fittest.

I'm not nostalgic enough to save your butts.

No soup for you!



x

 

I agree this is a watershed, just desserts for a bloated and lazy industry that has ignored calls for fuel efficiency and higher environmental responsibility. For the past 30 years the Big 3, with billions in federal money to help create hybrids, electirc cars, hydrogen cars, have gone gas-guzzler. That's our fault for creating a market; their fault for being so short-sighted while Toyota, for example, continued to streamline its production process of leaner, cost/fuel efficent vehicles. (There are entire business textbooks devoted to Toyota's business model.)

This is also an old fight with unions, and some old-school Republicans are willing to put millions of Americans in the soup kitchen in order to stick it to the UAW.

Is this also a class issue? I'll paraphrase a line I heard somewhere this week that I liked, summarizing the class warfare underscoring all these recent government bailouts: "If you shower before work, you get help; if you shower after work, sorry about your luck."

Another factor, of course, is typical pay-to-play politics ...

Major players in the bill's Senate block:

Richard Shelby, R-Ala.
Foreign auto plants: Mercedes-Benz, Hyundai, Honda
Domestic auto plants: None


Jim DeMint, R-S.C.
Foreign auto plants: BMW
Domestic auto plants: None


Mitch McConnell, R-Ky.
Foreign auto plants: Toyota (non-union)
Domestic auto plants: Ford and G.M. (UAW)

Bob Corker, R-Tenn.
Foreign auto plants: Two Nissan plants, as well as the company's U.S. headquarters; Volkswagen will open near Chattanooga in 2011
Domestic auto plants: G.M. (though the company announced Friday that the plant will close until February)

Georgia's two Republican senators, Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isaakson, both voted against the plan as well. Their state has a big Kia factory in the works.

 

This is also an old fight with unions, and some old-school Republicans are willing to put millions of Americans in the soup kitchen in order to stick it to the UAW.

Seems the Big three are losing big money with or without any republican help.

Perhaps if the UAW wants to come to the table with some concessions a deal will get done. Horay for putting the brakes on corporate welfare for $70 an hour workers!

 

I agree the union definitely needs to give, and probably a lot, if this industry is going to survive. But I think the $70/hour thing is a myth.

Here's one of many articles you can find on it. (I googled "70 hour auto worker")

Media still wedded to $70+ per hour autoworker falsehood despite GM's recent statements to the contrary.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200812060002


More:
"it's a conservative myth concocted by totaling all wages, plus health and benefit costs to current workers and 450,000 retirees and their families -- and then deceptively dividing that huge total payout by the number of current UAW workers, about 140,000 in Detroit."

 

When I was a federal employee they did that crap. They sent us a statement every January showing that with benefits and allowances and leave we actually made $32/hour. And it was laughable that my paycheck was like $480 twice a month. Yeah, piss down my back and tell me it's a refreshing Spring rain...

 

Once again the little guy is at fault according to the Republicans.

But the truth is:
http://wtopnews.com/?nid=116&sid=1546974

Now the taxpayers will have to pay for their unemployment, health care, etc.. Plus our country loses jobs and further decreases it's manufacturing base.

 

It is more then labor cost..

They can put cars out for the same price, you can buy a economy American car for the same price as a economy Asian car.

but would someone buy a Ford escort over a Honda Civic?

I really think quality is a most of it.

I used to always buy 70s Fords they were great at 100,000 give them a tune up and they would go to 200,000 with an occasional small part like a starter or a power steering pump.

But around 84 Ford went to hell and they were just putting out junk.. Usually at 100,000-130,000 they would need major expensive work and they were dead by 180,000 so at 130,000 miles you could dump thousands into a vehicle and then it would just die in another year or 2.

I got a few dead Fords for cheap because the emission systems (1/2 Mexican /Canadian garbage components) would go out at 130,000 miles and they would cost more to fix then the car was worth. So I would buy them for a couple of hundred dollars and rip the emissions off of them and rig them to run without.

My GF had a 94 dodge 4x4 a few years ago at 140,000 the whole truck fell apart transmission was going out, paint was coming off the body, the suspension was going out. Just a big pile of junk.
1960s-1970s Dodge trucks would usually go for 250,000 to 300,000 miles.

American vehicles are just junk now.. They have been for more then 20 years.

Now I drive Honda or Toyota they are great they usually run to 200,000 or more without major issues and they are dependable and tight.

 

fuck UAW
fuck the auto workers
fuck the auto industry

i can't wait till it all collapses

 

Still my hero fitz. Lets you and me jump in my Solar Yugo and go scope some Betties.

 

Some people like not being homeless

http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/epi-if-big-3-fail-18-unemployment-michigan



That map is deceiving in the fact that if GM failed, they'd all fail

Also aside from all the fuck ups they made, comparing the overhead costs of GM vs Toyota
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmvstoyota/
GM:
White collar: 36,000
Production: 106,000.
Retirees: 460,000

Toyota:
White collar: 17,000
Production: 21,000
Retirees: 1,600

GM has over 3x the amount of retires then it currently has in work while Toyota has about 17x the number of workers then it has retires to look after

 

Ok-- then what if the federal government assumed the financial burden of looking after the retirees? Then on the basis of specific need cash be made available for GM, Chrysler, and Ford to meet expenses on the condition that every contract be voided and renegotiated... if UAW wants to strike because of wage and benefit parity with Toyota and Honda, let 'em strike. Bring in non-union help. There are PLENTY of people looking for gainful employment that would gladly take a damned good paying job with the Big Three. They're playing chicken with way too many livelihoods to let shit play out as it is.

If their expense level prevents them from being competitive and creates an nonviable business model then an unwillingness to negotiate is the same as willfully pitching the economy toward a depression because of greed. Such a mindset does not deserve the privilege of steady employment- let them rot in the street while the willing get a chance to earn an honest living.