Continuing topics or discussion

I have a serious misconception about what it means to explore and discuss a topic with people. First of all, I don't think that once opinions diverge that the conversation should stop. In fact, that is where it gets interesting. As long as it's keep soft spoken, calm, and slow just about any topic can be fully exhausted. Secondly, if one party is "done" and the other is "not done", how should that be handled? I've seen it that the "done" person avoids the topic, or demands it end. I've seen it that the "not done" person presses or exhibits resent later. Thirdly, if discussion has a logical flow of participation (ie take turns), but does not follow that flow, what is the best way to get it back on course?

 

I'm glad to hear someone say this. It displays an almost comical delicacy and timidity when people refuse to disagree even in a civil way; and they immediately bring it back to some trumped-up form of agreement: "agreement to disagree." With couples this can be especially problematic; it's not clear to me whether you're talking specifically about couples or not. But when the subject of conversation is something that needs to be discussed and one party runs away, that's a huge problem. It worries me in a relationship because it demonstrates just how much strength this person has to deal with things that are uncomfortable and problematic; i.e. not much.

As to getting the conversation back into a logical flow, it usually seems to necessary to present it again in a different way, even to falsify its image a bit to make it easier. Try to approach it again from whatever angle you think it's bothering them; talk about what's bothersome, even if it doesn't bother you; act like it does. And if you can't get them to talk about it at all, give up.

EDIT: 2,000!

 

I agree, the whole "forgive and forget thing" really fuels the problem though because lots of couples just don't really deal with the issue, yet they pretend to by brushing it under the rug until it the problem surfaces again and then the fight starts citing past fights and unsolved problems.

For me this is grounds for break up or change, it's one of those major walls.

 

Yes, I am talking about couples mostly. An example I'm in right now is how to take the steps it takes to arrange a time for a phone call. The negotiation should not stop until an arranged time is determined. It seems so logical to me but when I express my displeasure that an arrangement as not been reached, it is met with quite of bit of resistance. I encounter it also with family members too (ie my sister). For instance, just a few weeks ago, I got in a debate about "leashing" children at theme parks. Some do it for safety so the toddler will not run off. I disagree with it because there are more suitable methods used amongst the human species. It encourages exploration and development and sets limits when the adult needs to do so. Once I stated my opinion my sister shut the topic down because she felt I was calling her inadequate. That led to a whole new argument. I've noticed it with close friendships as well. Back in March I got to drunk and pulled on my friend too hard. She fell, and broke her shoulder. It was very traumatic on both of us, and for weeks after we didn't discuss it. We have stayed very close friends and I want to detail the events, and she has no desire.

Sometimes I am accused of needing discussion too much. I can absorb a great degree of "discomfort" within conversation. I'm willing to let people get things off their chest, especially in cases where it might involve me. It offers a whole new realm of clarification if people will go down the tough road. Maybe I'm overboard.

 

Yeah you see as a guy I'll avoid topics like that and just listen. It solves the problem and I also acknowledge every parents right to raise their kid their own way as long as the kid isn't abused.

Leashing might be appropriate for one family and not for another.

 

Monkir.....is that all you read in that post? But in discussing topics such as toddler leashing (and subsequent bisquit choices and training commands), I have no desire to change what they do. I just bring it to the surface. Many people, on the other hand, that are as opinionated as I, will go run to the other room with like-minded others and shred on said leash user behind closed doors; judging them harshly.

 

Being "done" doesn't necessarily translate immediately to running way in my mind. I can think of many examples where I am firm in my decision, opinion, action, whatever, and it not only won't matter if someone else tries to argue it to death, it's highly likely that I will become annoyed, progressing to pissed off.

I'm not saying that I don't give a person time to make their case, but after a certain point if it's a dead horse, let it go.
:daisy:

 

I addressed that men and women have differing perspectives on tabling a conversation VS it being done or solved and there was a thread a few months ago that hit this topic.

And no that's not all I took from your post calgirl, but it was all I wanted to comment on.

 

I can see where there is time to "let it go". I truly do see that topics can get fully examined. Ending them prematurely upsets me. It's unsatisfying and I haven't yet been able to articulate my stance. Even more importantly though is when there isn't an agreement that is workable between the two. One keeps doing something that the other cannot accept.

 

To me that must be fixed or the relationship will fail or evolve into an emotionally abusive passive aggressive one and I've found the sex in these situations suffers and cheating happens.

 

Differing perspectives. True. I kinda knew that. What one sees as the problem is not at all what the other sees. The two go around and around. Specifically, "I'll text you when I leave" is said repeatedly, and is repeatedly not fulfilled. I cannot accept that. When I ask that it be done as promised, there are excuses. When I bring that up, it turns into a man/woman perspective thing. Truth is truth.

 

I think this happens after a fight because someone leaves in a huff and verbal talk of the issue stops...and only non-verbal communication polishes off the fight with possibly make-up sex.

But because of that each partner leaves with their own interpretation of what the non-verbal communication means.

 

Im not sure I follow monkir. What happens after a fight and the topic is dropped? The interpretation of a non-verbal communication? So, lets say the promised text never comes. Instead, two days later, flowers arrive. In my mind, I'm still reeling about the missed text, and in his mind he's trying to repair the damage without addressing the root of why it happens repeatedly.

 

Well...hmm we have to back track here because depending on the problem that caused the fight the solution is different.

Some problems the women is right, other's the man is right. So here I can't speak in generalities, even for a missing text because context is needed like what the text is about.

You could throw me a hypothetical but I need more detail in this hypothetical scenario.

 

The flowers could be a sweet gesture unrelated to the missing text.

Women need to remember we don't connect the dots well and honestly I don't think we track our own behavior well or see the implied meanings of actions which explains why boys and men don't notice the importance of a clean bedroom or toilet.

Also if it happened once or twice or event 3 times it could've been a phone or cell service provider problem. If your mood with him sours with an assumption he did it deliberately the guy will think your unfair or have invalid reason for a fight.

Or if you ask a guy to check in with a text too often...the expectations are too high.

As for body language...the silent treatment, tense muscles bad foreplay, lack of eye contact, can't be in the same room. Guys might not pick up those signs at all and a women expects him to and holds that against him or for not recognizing the signs early enough.

This is where you get:

Him: what's the problem?

Her: you don't know? Do I have to spell it out for you?

^ generally speaking though since I don't have specifics to go off of.

 

The text has no content. It is purely to maintain contact and connection. The primary problem is that those promised texts don't come to be. Time after time it happens. Could it be that contact without content is not enough for a man?

ETA....it's about following through. Is it habit? Character? Man thing? What???????? Why do I see it so clearly, but he cannot?

 

Sometimes guys don't know what to say.

We don't necessarily like talking about our day because doing so makes us relive a negative experience or would make us look like a slob.

When you ask what did we do all day do you really want us to tell you we spent the day doing generic things, drank a bit, crack jokes that probably offend you with friends, watched TV and played video games all day?

If I were a girl I would not be impressed....so we take what we think is a safe route...silence.

 

It also could be he's been busy too.

Like I text my guy friends all the time and there's a huge lag in response. (5 month lag) its quite halarious but it doesn't get anybody upset unless its an emergency.

 

Then it's time to move on instead of wasting two lives on disagreement. Seriously.

Reeling about a missed text...?

Aaahh... I see what's happening here. You're very into him, you've got behavioral requirements that he's resisting. You want him to conform to your requirements and he just won't, plain and simple.

Your choice at this point is to get over it and deal with it as it is, or move on.

It's not a man thing, either. If he's really into you then believe you me he WILL contact you. No offense, but you're sounding obsessive and clingy and like you're not seeing anything clearly except what you have spinning round in your head. Sounds like this guy has really gotten under your skin and you want to be under his.



***Edit*** is this the fuck buddy?

 

All probably true MadWoman.

No, different guy.

ETA: BTW, it isn't always something personal. Our phone calls are interrupted constantly, and leaves some topic (ie job talk, kid talk) hanging. I would like to resume them. This post is really much more about conversations then it is relationships.