Do you think the USA will fall from it's super power status in your life time?

Discussion in 'The Future' started by jamaican_youth, May 21, 2008.

  1. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    Economically, the U.S. is amassing debt at a rate which will eventually become obvious to most, if not all citizens, beyond any possibility of repayment other than a massive devaluation of the dollar. Just look at Zimbabwe as an example, where eggs can be purchased for 35 billion Zimabawe dollars each.

    You seem to think I propose a simple solution, while I don't really propose any solution to the greater problem but instead only seek to find satisfactory solutions for myself in adapting to changes which are taking place that are beyond my individual ability to control. I simply try to motivate others to look for ways to become independent and eliminate any need for government actions in their lives other than those most basic, the protection from both foreign and domestic sources on their rights as individuals.

    You mention a "plan in general", and "people who are supposed to change the world" but didn't elaborate enough on those topics for me to respond properly.

    You gave "taking back major media outlets" as a solution to the problem, and I think both the major media outlets and education systems are primary sources of many of the problems that exist today, but the problem which remains unsolved is HOW to go about taking them back.

    While communication is or can be useful in a democracy, in the simplest terms democracy is little more than majority rules, and as currently implemented in U.S. politics the only majority that truly counts is the political party which was capable of getting a majority of it's candidates elected. The majority of the politicians constituints most often only become a factor when election time is nearing. Any positive change benefiting those at the bottom needs to eminate from the bottom, demanding the desired changes from the government. Allowing change to come from the top will often be claimed to be for the benefit of those at the bottom, while masking a greater benefit for those at the top. One also needs to be careful that they are not trading freedoms or rights for financial security as you will quickly find you have nothing more to sell.

    Just curious, are there any recognizable individuals whose political views you subscribe to? Personally, I like the views expressed by the so called "founding fathers" along with the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution. I also like the views of a number of modern individuals, some living and some dead, such as Ayn Rand, Thomas Sowell, and Ludwig Von Mises, to name just a few. It's interesting to contrast their views and my views along with the views of Marx and Engels, and the Communist Manifesto. It's easy to see how individuals needs and desires can be put to use in a way that allows them to accept control in various ways thinking it is in their best interests, while at the same time ignoring the fact that they are giving up more and more of their freedom and rights at the same time.

    Don't allow emotions to overwhelm your reasoning and principles. While we as individuals may not be able to do much about the world as a whole, we can take control of our individual lives avoiding constraints imposed by government when possible and adapting as we see fit when not possible. Major changes only take place when enough people become bold enough to demand the changes take place. When things get bad enough to have a negative effect on a large enough majority change will likely begin to be sought, and until then the point of Ayn Rands "Atlas Shrugged" is to care for ones self and allow just that to happen. Communication need not always be verbal, sometimes it can be done through action, or even inaction.
     
  2. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    Take back? Were they yours/ the general publics then?
    Aside from the BBC, I'd say let those others put out what they like.
    Want communication?...go create your own way to communicate.
    I have to remove the BBC as we pay for that...
    I bloody hope we can have what ever we want on the BBC.
    There are a myriad of ways to get a message broadcast via the BBC.
     
  3. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    That's because Zimbabwe is under sanctions and is being run by idiots.
     
  4. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    As opposed to the intellectual geniuses running the U.S.?
     
  5. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    Yes.
     
  6. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    Ok. A less sarcastic response.
    You can't really compare the situation in Zimbabwe with that of the US.
    Obviously there are some dedicated people in the Zimbabwe government, who, given the opportunity, would do well with the economy.
    But, the social and political realities won't allow it.
    So, for now the idiots have the say.

    On the other hand...the US has one of the strongets currencies in the world. Trades with the entire world...and is not even on the same table as Zimbabwe.
     
  7. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    Odon: Your initial response was not taken as being sarcastic, no more than I meant my extreme comparison to your use of the word "idiots". And yes, the differences taking place in Zimbabwe and the U.S. are quite different, in Zimbabwe it is land being returned to the rightful owners, while in the U.S. it is claimed that wealth will be returned to the rightful owners. I have lived in several countries that have seen their currencies undergo massive devaluation. It is something that no country is immune to having happen. I remember when $35 U.S. bought an ounce of gold, and today it takes nearly $950. Circulated currencies backed by nothing more than a promise tend to become less valuable as their quantity increases. I live in Asia, and the U.S. dollar has lost about 10% against our currency in the last year. Also China is beginning to develop agreements with many of it's trading partners to use the Yuan in place of the dollar, while also moving from long term to short term loans to the U.S.

    I take it you are satisfied with the direction the U.S. government is heading currently?
     
  8. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I understand even the mighty dollar is in a precarious position.
    But, it has the ability to bounce back quickly, because unlike the difficulties in Zimbabwe, the US is fairly politically stable...and are in a greater position to be able to weather most if not all storms.
    Imo, Zimbabwe forced it's position onto itself...it wasn't their intention to completely devalue the curreny, I'm sure. But, they did.
    That is why I think they are idiots.

    Given our current global fiancial crisis...i'm not suprised.
    How much has the curreny devalued where you are?

    The US truly has some very serious questions to address.
    I have no delusions they do not.

    I don't know enough to answer that.
    On the surface...yeah.
    I'm hoping one thing: The Obama admin' is viewed differently than the Bush admin'.
     
  9. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    I wasn't trying to compare the U.S. to Zimbabwe politically, and could have used any number of other countries who have experienced massive devaluations of their currencies for various reasons in the past. From what I see, price inflation is taking place in many, most, and possibly all countries presently. This usually creates a demand for higher wages as a means of offsetting which can also create further price inflation.

    The dollar is worth about 10% less over the past year, and to make matters worse the local currency is also down about 10% in purchasing power.

    Are you seeing benefit from any of the programs Obama has implemented so far? or do you foresee future benefits from any which he is trying to implement presently? I'm more or less insulated from what happens in the U.S. for the remainder of my lifetime, but am curious as to what those younger than me expect of future life in the U.S. I have no say in the government where I live, being a legal resident alien, and although I have an opinion I share with citizens just for fun, I am quite happy with the little interaction government has in daily life. We have no property taxes, zoning rules, and the only taxes I pay are a 15% flat rate on interest earned in the bank, which the banks handle each time interest is declared. There is a 7% VAT but that is only collected at major stores which are seldom used. If it weren't for having Internet we could easily live on $100 per month, and that's a family of 4. Wages where I live are between $3 and $5 per day for most people, and most everyone owns property, and paid for house. Over the 11 years I've been retired I've saved much more than I was able to working 40 years in the U.S.

    Keep me posted on what progress you see happening in the U.S. and if it is satisfying you.
     
  10. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    Zimbabwe is the extreme.
    I only mention the political situation, because that is the major factor for Zimbabwes currency being of little or no value.
    It is unlikey the US would suffer the same kind of political turmoil that would plunge the curreny into Zimbabwe style depths...not even close.
    I agree: price inflation is taking place in many, most, and possibly all countries presently.
    The thing is, most countries will recover.
    You seemed to be suggesting the US is on a one way highway to oblivion.

    So, both have suffered the same?

    So am I mate, I live in England. Have done for all my life.
    That is why I said: I don't know enough to answer that.
     
  11. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    I'm looking at the National Debt as an indicator, along with some events which might occur in the near future in order for businesses to legally avoid some new taxes and government mandated business expenses. Here I'm aware of some American owned manufacturers who pay very good wages by local standards, about $3 an hour, one of them being the company I retired from where I earned about $30 and hour, and also had medical, dental, and eye care insurance provided.

    Not exactly, prices here have increased about 10% from last year, but the dollar which I exchange now provides me with 10% less local currency than last year, which compounds the total loss of purchasing power relative to the dollar.

    My mistake, I just assumed you were in the U.S.
    How is England being affected by the current economic situation? Better or worse than in the U.S.? It seems I am able to get better U.S. news reporting from England than from the U.S. now.
    On another note, I've spent nearly a year trying to identify a comedian I think was from England that appeared on late night TV years ago in the U.S. All I could remember was he was missing his left index finger tip. Might you know who that was? Local TV here is not very entertaining so I've started looking for other sources of entertainment, and have access to some British TV programs but am not familiar with anyone other than Mr. Bean.
     
  12. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    I should clarify the currency situation. The local currency has strengthened 10% vs the $, therefore I get less of it when exchanging dollars, and prices here have risen about 10%.
    Hopefully that is more clearly stated.
     
  13. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    So you don't think the US is heading for a one way trip to oblivion?

    I see. Yes, that is more clear. Thank You.

    It may have been Dave allen:

    At school Allen lost part a middle finger after catching it in a cog. He used the fact of his missing digit as an excuse for numerous different shaggy dog stories.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4340343.stm

    Oh, good grief...MR Bean. :mad:
    I don't know if you are more into older comedy or newer contemporary comedy.
    This might help find some you like: http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/
    I like: http://www.bbc.co.uk/psychoville/
     
  14. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I'd say better.
    Simply because our debt is more manageable.

    From my own perspective...I don't think the US is effecting the UK that much (aside from leading us up this path in the first place).
    I'm probably widely wrong though.
    We seem to be having more trouble with the rest of the EU.
    Where our money is scattered in banks I've never heard of.
    Local government putting their money in European banks for e.g.

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/11/20090611/tpl-bank-collapse-revealed-substantial-c-0a1c1a1.html (well close enough to the EU - they'll be with us soon :rolleyes:)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8081685.stm
     
  15. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    Not necessarily oblivion, but a somewhat lower average lifestyle than what I experienced. I'm surprised that the current debt which exceeds $11.3 trillion hasn't already had a more negative effect than it has. Add to that an increasing retiree to worker ratio, expanded government assistance programs, ever increasing annual federal and state budget increases, and at some point government spending will begin to overtake the GDP.

    I just googled, and that's the name I was looking for. Thanks much, and I'm sorry to see he's deceased.

    He's different. I'm just looking for something new, actors, actresses, plots, etc. For movies, I like something that keeps you in suspense. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.
     
  16. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I'm starting to think this is a good thing in the long run.

    I don't think we shall see the truth for a few more years yet.

    You'll certainly find something new in that link.
    Does the iplayer work where you are?
     
  17. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    I currently live a much simpler and less costly lifestyle than when I was working, although it's much more enjoyable. I don't even have a car or truck anymore, just a small motorcycle which serves my needs adequately, and I take a mini bus or fly if I need to go any distance from home.

    I got a "Not available in your area" when I tried to play the link, but was able to find the 1st 2 episodes elsewhere.
     
  18. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I approve this message. :) :rolleyes:


    Thought you might. Yeah, you can pretty much find it (whatever) in other places if you look hard enough.
     
  19. ChangeHappens

    ChangeHappens Member

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    Are you guys factoring in resource depletion. Are you aware that food production relies completely on oil? I am an environmental studies graduate and economics is not even close to the real problems we are facing.Another thing that will put a sever strain on our way of life is Bio-Technological firms taking over the seed market. These companies are attempting to achieve a monopolization of the seed market, which will put even higher strain on the farmers. In fact, many farmers are going bankrupt more than ever and their land is being bought off by companies who utilize the land for less that 5-10 years, leaving it desolate and useless EVEN with the chemical inputs derived from oil.

    A numbe of other problems exist in the food system as well. Some that will also lead to catastrophe's and spikes in food prices. Pests are become increasingly strong. They are evolving against our pesticides. The potato famine occurred because a fungus(pest) killed all the potatoes. Normally this would never occur, BUT since potato farmers reduced the Bio-diversity of the potato seed, reducing it to 5 different strains, they were unable to protect themselves with natural ways that saved us in the past. We find a seed that is biologically superior to that disease OR we have it already planted and we don't loose the complete crops and hundreds of thousands of lives. Presently, we have LESS and LESS strains of our major crops, which is what I imagine is intended by these large companies. Situations like the potato famine inventively mean scarcity and the monopolization of the seed, the chemical inputs and the land, are although not as immediate catastrophic, will eventually lead to scarcity, something that companies with a monopolization in a industry strive for.
     
  20. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

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    We live in a complex world, and there are both problems and potential problems we must contend with perpetually. As your post indicates the list would be endless. Problems can be major or minor, interrelated and sometimes unsolvable. While I agree resource depletion is becoming a problem in some areas, I think most people, at least those unemployed or facing uncertain employment see the economic problem to be primary in requiring a solution. And Jarad Diamond makes your point very well, but I've yet to see anyone offer any reasonable solutions to resource depletion, which might also be seen as a side effect of rapid world population growth and modernization of third world countries. You state that food production relies completely on oil. That may be close to being true in the U.S. or the developed world, but not so in many countries. Where I live agriculture is the primary source of income, rice, soy beans, corn, and numerous other vegetables planted, fertilized naturally, little if any pesticides used, and harvested all by human labor. The only time oil becomes a factor is in the delivery of the product to distant markets. Modernization of this area would have a negative effect on the population who live quite well on the equivalent of several dollars a day, have no unemployment problems, and when necessary do without rather than incur debt. We have no need for government social or welfare programs as villages are small and more or less like families where everyone shares with others willingly as they are able to. Living in the U.S. I seldom knew more than a few neighbors, and had to move frequently in my job, but in my youth, over 60 years ago, living in the U.S. was quite similar to where I live now.
    I would really like to see the U.S. news media ask the Obama administration to provide a list of the top 10 problems they feel need most immediate attention in solving, and then have them elaborate on what they feel is the appropriate solution.

    For government to fund budgets which are increased annually requires economic growth to also increase annually or for taxes to increase annually. Would you not agree on that? I know that I as an individual could not spend more annually without earning more annually, unless I were to allow myself to go into debt deeper annually. Do Americans see the government as a bottomless pit containing money? Perhaps that might be a good way to view it, as a bottomless pit would allow the money to continue to fall deeper into the pit making it harder to access.
    Many problems can be solved in various ways, but what are the side effects created by each different solution? Are they acceptable? If acceptable to some but not others, who has the final say? Is a simple majority adequate in making all decisions? Can there be compromises made which will solve or make a problem acceptable which would be acceptable to all? This is an area where government should openly and most of all honestly relate to the citizenry what problems exists, and the affect possible solutions will have on them, and then let the representatives hear from their constituents whom they supposedly are representing when they vote.
     
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