Do you think your country has a "class structure"? What do you think about it?

The country I live in is known for having a "class structure".
By that, I mean, your own prospects can be very much determined by that of your family - parents, grandparents, even great-great grandparents etc etc.

Britain is probably/possibly the most "class based" country in the World. Your schooling, career, likely prospects, accent, appearance... most things are dictated by your family background etc.. So someone whos pretty smart might have a shit job. And a half-wit might be prime minister/ boss of an investment bank, if he went to a high school like Eton, which cost over 30k GB A YEAR, before living expenses.

I used to hear that America was a "classless society". But I started wondering about that when GW Bush supposedly became "president". And when I started hearing about people not applying to prestige universities, on account of the cost.

MY QUESTION:
Do you think your country has a class system?
Do you like it/dislike it or are neutral about it?
Have u benefited or suffered because of it?
Do you act in any particular way because of it?

I'll give my answer later in the thread.

 

I don't think that America has a class structure, but I very much believe that we have a very serious problem with all the benefits of capitalism going to the 1% while the rest of us can't afford college or health insurance.

 

I don't know if Britian has more of a class structure than India...

In any case, yes the U.S. has a class structure and no the U.S. is not classless.

How do I feel about it? Hahaha... does it matter how I feel about it? It sucks but it is what it is and I doubt that can or will be changed. So, uh, it sucks? I mean, yeah, it does and it's just getting worse and worse all the time... the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I mean, we have witnessed the collapse of the middle class and basically are very close to a 2 class society.

What do I do about it? I live my life to the best of my ability and appreciate what we have. I'm also more careful with money.



I was on house arrest during OWS so unfortunally was unable to attend.

 

Wouldn't the 1% and the rest... the 99% BE a class structure though?
That's how I see it...

 

Yeah, maybe. I just don't think it's like what they have in Great Britain, but I haven't thought about very much.

 

Interesting posts.
@AT
Yes India looks pretty terrible. Infact I know it is. Even before u see the poverty. I've seen a lot of Indians bring that caste shit over to England...then yell "racism" at every opportunity.

On Capitalism, I think there are different types of it - feudalist, croney Capitalism, more meritocratic capitalism. And I think that to prevent a class structure, u need Capital issues balanced with social and other ones..

For instance people like Warren Buffett dont think that kids should inherit fortunes.
So he is vehemently anti-class structures. (Buffett also lives a modest lifestyle).

I think America is becoming disturbingly more caste/class based. Im thinking how colleges are very class based eg parental money/ whether they went to Yale too etc. And also nonsense like unpaid internships, and shit jobs after college etc.

I dont think Capitalism is the heart of America's problems. Just the version of it. Its like in Britain, big banks went bankrupt because the top posts were all filled by family friends. Who were useless.

I dont think money was such a barrier in the past in the US. It seems to have changed recently... but I dont know if I ever looked closely enough..

 

It was only about 30 years ago when a middle class life in America meant home ownership, two cars, college for all the kids, a yearly family vacation with workers getting three weeks vacation, excellent health insurance at fairly low cost, a defined pension or a 401k retirement program with company matching, employment security with many people working for the same company all their lives. It isn't like that anymore. Since then, middle-class wages have been stagnant with all the economic benefits going to the 1%. Very few people have enough saved for retirement. Many benefits have been scaled back. Politics is now dominated/gridlocked by mean-spirited, old white men who don't want to do anything for poor people or even the middle class. They don't even want to repair our crumbling roads and bridges.

 

Yeah, my grandparents were able to work in the same job their whole lives- not even great jobs (meaning not needing a lot of college education, or any college) but good jobs (secure company with employers who treated them as humans not numbers) and own a home and two cars and go on vacations with their kids and, although they didn't have much in the scope of bling bling ...having money to just throw around..they had enough and it was simple.

Now... Yeah, it is not like that.

Even the places they worked.. my grandma working at a little family run printing company on Main St a block away from her house... a place that shut down for two days after she passed away... yeah, those places do not (much) exist anymore.

 

Yes, America has class and always has. Class here, however, spans more than just ones economic situation; race, regionalism, urban vs rural are all different aspects of America's "class system". The difference from other countries, I think, is that movement between the "classes" is, for the most part, fluid. I grew up lower middle class and have only seen my fortunes improve as an adult. Though I've had people tell me my upward economic mobility is due to the fact I'm white.

All that said, I think it is naive to believe politics in this country is dominated by a single class, or "angry old white men"

 

What you just described though for yourself is becoming less and less common though.
And it's one thing to go from lower middle up... it's another thing entirely to go from working class or lower on up... much harder. Because lower middle can at least afford college, etc.

 

Why do you say that? All you have to do is look at the US Senate. I should have said, "rich, mean-spirited, white old men".

 

This is a very interesting topic and one which I only wish I had the time to properly enter into discussing right now, so I will say in passing that yes, America has a class structure, and that the way I feel about it is that I'm disappointed it is not as rigidly defined and strictly exclusive as it could be. There is not so deep a history of the familial transfer of wealth and prestige, and there is no common code of gentry, so largely I'm just anachronistic and despair of the ever decreasing moral values and lack of impetus which used to compel civility under common terms. We produce garbage for art and have come to convince ourselves of its authenticity as a legitamte expression of beauty when in reality it simply reflects the sorry state of affairs that we continually embrace with a deepening enthusiasm. Pop culture, consumerism, scientism, post-modernism, absurdism, &c all substitution of derranged deformity for harmony. My mind is conservative while my heart is liberal, I was born into extreme poverty and loathe my own people, only because they generally behave so foolishly, and with no shame. I'm conflicted on the matter but ultimately just find it all too depressing to consider identifying with, so I'm content to watch from a distance and keep mainly to myself. The gentlemen that do exist tend to do so on their own terms and this is satisfactory in a shopping mall of a nation, as George Carlin called it.

 

Yeah, I think sometimes when I say on here (thinking of a diff thread) about rich, white men that some people get the impression that I mean any man who happens to have money and is white. That's not what I mean at all. I know plenty of white men that have some money or even lots of money that are not the men I mean when I personally say "rich white men".

 

I think class in this country has a lot to do with race. I'm in Socal and in some cities around here (rich white dominated ones), if you're Black, your resume is going straight into the trash can. It's not something people talk about and it's not an official policy, it's just an understood unspoken rule.

 

Is it though? I'm certainly not alone in what I've accomplished. To me, when I hear stuff like you posted, it is just starting to sound like more and more bullshit excuses..... My parents made it very clear that they couldn't afford to pay for our college. They could help, but most would be paid for with student loans. Personally, I never needed their help or student loans.

 

True... but maybe in some places classism goes across the board more than others..

For example where I live- I'm kinda right outside of two very poor areas- one is... the small city/large town/whatever you wanna call it that I'm right outside of of about 60,000 ppl... most of the poorest ppl there are non-white...however, right outside of there in the smaller towns and the rural areas outside those towns, I've seen a lot of white poverty... when my husband was unemployed and we had to go to a food bank in a more rural area there were really, really poor white people... lots of them and this area tends to have a lot of them.
Actually when you compare the poverty level (and this school systems) of the "city" school and the school covering the rural area that I'm talking about the poverty level and drop out rate, etc is EXTREMLY similar. They are the two worst in the county. One right after the other... than there are the suburban predominately white schools w upper middle class, etc.

In any case, I agree with you ... but just saying there is rural poverty as well and I think classism is the real issue and can effect white people as well.

 

Well, good for you. I still owe 23 grand on student loans and I worked when I went to college.. my parents didn't give me one penny since I was 17 but I needed the loans because the money I could make working had to pay for rent, car, groceries, bills...

So, if you were able to do that w.out loans or parent's help, good for you. But that is hard.
Then I later on ended up qualifying for scholarships for being in phi theta kappa .... however, at that point I was already married and just not able to go move and live in a dorm and be a traditional college student so couldn't do it.. I kinda regret it but being that I have a toddler I need to be home with... maybe later on in life...

Oh and if you take two students- one with higher H.S. grades but less money and one with mediocre grades but more money ... the weaker student with more money will likely be the one going to the better college.

 

Britain definitely does. It is very much obvious too. Just by talking to someone, if for example they say 'Don't go there, that area is rough', most of the time it isn't that rough, it is just poor, housing/council estates and many people not in work. 'Lower class'. I was brought up in a 'middle class'/'working class' London border suburb. I now live in a 'Lower class'/'working class' London borough, you can see the difference.

My accent is a mixture between well spoken 'posh' and 'cockney' common. I speak to some people who will say I sound posh and joke about me being brought up in Surrey as I must be rich or well off. But I also get called cockney a lot, despite not using the rhyming slang, it happens a lot when I go to other parts of the country, richer parts of London or abroad. People seem to get a kick out of me saying 'alright mate'

The fact that our politicians still refer to us in classes, shows how dominant it is.

 

In the US, the class structure consists of the ultra elite, and everyone else. Sure there are people who have more than others, but they focus on that to keep us divided and fighting amongst ourselves vs. uniting against our common enemy.

All this talk about class annoys me, because it misses the bigger picture.

 

Because it isn't angry old white men putting them there.

 

We might differ on who we think DOES put them there.