Does ANYONE actually oppose socialized medicine?

My friend from Norway was just telling me how his sister had a baby recently and was in the hospital for 2 weeks, all free..............

and I was thinking the question posed in the title of this thread.

 

I don't oppose the idea, it's actually a very good idea, but at this point in time in America it won't work without having taxes skyrocket. A large portion of the budget is already going to social security, and the baby boomers are only going to make it worse. Plus, the overall quality of medical care would go down if we federalize healthcare.

 

Of course, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the "overall quality of healthcare would go down" if healthcare were free to all, considering that Europeans are far HEALTHIER than Americans and have had free health care for years. What WOULD happen is that overpriveleged whining americans wouldn't be able to get in the same day to see a doctor when they have the common COLD, which is actually a good thing, because pointless doctor visits like that in the US waste valuable time and resources on nonsense.


Further, the US wastes TRILLIONS on garbage defense projects, worldwide military installations, corporate welfare, bombing the third world, the war on (some) drugs, imprisoning millions of nonviolent drug offenders, and "secret" projects every single year. Enough money could easily be tagged for health care if you cut some of the crap out of the federal budget. But as usual, don't hold your breath.

 

Then why do most Canadians come to America for operations, surgeries, and treatment of serious conditions?

That's because Americans are fatter and exercise less, it has nothing to do with health care.

No argument there.

That has nothing to do with health care.........

 

Really, Max...most?

You are going to have to back that up with numbers of some sort.

 

this is yet another reason why i want to move to norway......

 

Well Spain is the same way, if you are even in their country visiting you can actually go to the doctor for free.


Personally I think our system is like that of a developing country. Most jobs don't give benefits anymore, and I'm self employed anyway, so I have a 2500 deductable health insurance, just in case something serious happened.

If I got hit by a car, I could picture myself going home and trying to sleep it off to avoid paying thousands of dollars in medical bills and dying. I wonder how many times that has happened.

One bad medical bill and you'd wish you did just pay more in taxes and have everything covered.

It actually cuts down on employment in this country as well. Companies pay on average an extra 10,000 dollars per employee on health insurance, a number that prevents them from hiring new employees in many cases.

I sse absolutely no reason to fully support it. They could have federal hospitals that are free, and private hospitals for people who want that.


I'd say health care is the worst thing about this nation. It makes us look terrible. My wife is Spanish and she can never believe how we live here as far as health care goes. She can't believe that if I hurt myself I would say "DON"T call the ambulance, I'll be OK."

Before some ass tells me to move to another country then, I probably will so fuck off

 

The only benefit I see to our privatized Health Care system is the quality of Health Care available. The US has the best hospitals in the world and that is somewhat due to our free market system. Sadly, many doctors choose their profession because they see the $$$ available to them.

Personally, I'm on the fence right now as to whether or not the quality of care would decrease if we went with a public health care system. As it is right now there is a tremendous shortage of registered nurses in this country and they get paid pretty well, so like I said I'm on the fence as to how a public health care system would change the quality of care if at all.

I know that I along with many millions of americans am not insured. I had benefits with with the jobs I had for the past four years, but being that I am unemployed, I lost those benefits and could not afford signing on to a cobra program at $300 a month.

so yeah, I'm basically on the fence and crossing my fingers that the mosquito bites on my arm aren't of the West Nile variety.

 

My beliefs on this issue were set in stone when my friend came down with cancer a few years back. He didn't have insurance, was just out of college, and couldn't find anyone to help him for 4 months.....he died a year later because it was fast moving and they "didn't catch it in time."


GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

I am not against socialized medicine, but I do believe that health care would suffer as a result, at least somewhat, especially when you factor in all the malpractice suits.

I don't care what you say, actual treatment isn't half as good in Canada and Norway as it is here. As somebody above stated, this is a reason why many Canadians come here for major surgeries.

Most people also don't consider the size of the US. We have many more people than Norway and Canada, so having socialized medicine isn't quite as easy for a country this large, especially when you factor in this country's current deficit, which I have a feeling isn't going to get any better anytime soon.

I am not saying it's not possible, though. Nor do I exactly oppose it, either.

And as somebody else stated, we could afford health care for everyone if unneeded government spending was cut. The thing is, I don't really see this happening, unfortunately.

 

Max, I'd also love to see the stats proving that "most Canadians" come to the US for the medical care you referenced. Oh, never mind - we all know it isn't true.

 

Health care quality is the reason I proposed having public and private hospitals. You could still have top doctors, you would just have to pay for them.....there needs to be more of a safety net here, something like one free hospital per medium size city, or more free clinics. I would take anything that was a move in that direction.

Willow-Yea, I'm sure not MOST Canadians come here....that sounds like propaganda. Something along the lines of Iraq being involved in 9-11.

Plus the US is a much wealthier country that in reality should be able to do it better than they do.

Something is seriously wrong when 1/3 of the population don't have coverage.....unfortunately I have to agree with Rat that it is unlikely anything will change.

 

the united states has truly dug itself into a hole and i'm not sure how they will ever be able to pull themselves out......

 

to those who say tht quality of care would suffer.


i think decent care for all would be preferable to superb care for some.

besides pharmecuticals(sp?) and insurance are where the money goes.

fix that and you fix the system.

 

And I have to say again, many industrialized nations with free healthcare have longer life expectancies and better overall health than the US. Is this partly because of diet, as another poster said? Sure. But another major factor is the availability of preventative medicine. A majority of serious illnesses (diabetes, cancers, heart disease/high blood pressure, HIV/AIDS) can be treated far more successfully and cheaply if they are caught early on and treated. Further, individuals with regular health care monitoring tend to get advice and assistance with lifestyle factors like diet and exercise that uninsured individuals do not receive. Universal health care tends to PREVENT serious illness in the first place, and keep the cost of treatment lower by providing early treatment when serious illness does occur.

Only in the most extreme situations - such as when a person *might* be saved by some new surgery or treatment available at one or two hospitals in the US - does the argument about the "vast superiority" of American medicine have any real credence when we look at the stats on the health of Europeans vs. that of Americans. And as another poster said, the wealthy will ALWAYS be able to afford the incredibly fantastic health care they receive in the US - the uninsured haven't been getting that care up till now, they won't receive it if they are sick, so they won't be missing out on anything if health care goes universal.

With all that said, I continue to agree with Rat, who agreed that the government is NOT going to cut spending on its most profitable industries (war and prison) in order to actually HELP citizens. So while I know it can work, it ain't gonna happen.

 

All this economics and behavioral stuff is interesting but I come back to one thought.

America is the richest country in the world. In America, the health care system will let a child die just because it is poor.

 

Why not do BOTH?

There's the U.S. postal service, then some privitized shipping companies. Why not have government-run hospitals, and if people want higher quality health care, they can go to a privitiazed hospital. Isn't it that way in Britain?

But seriously, I have a friend with asthma and no healthcare. She and others should be able to see a doctor and stay healthy, poor or rich.

 

Since you all are hell bent on crucifying me for my comments earlier, I'll take back what I said. Most Canadians don't come here for their major surgeries and whatnot (that wasn't really my point anyway), but many do. No matter what you say, the health care in America is better than in Canada and Norway (which was my point in the first place). Like I said before, I like the idea but at the same time I can't see it happening without taxes skyrocketing. Sure, we COULD cut unnecessary programs and things like that, but it's not going to happen no matter who's in control.

Ideally there would be two healthcares: one for those who could pay and one for those who can't, like the postal service as someone else mentioned. But 'ideally' is the key word there.

 

Oh boy.
I don't know....I've never thought of healthcare as a right. You are largely in control of your health. Face it. America has an obesity epidemic. Obesity causes illnesses and premature death. Heart disease is the number one killer here. But that's right, obesity is a disease, it's not American's fault. It's McDonald's fault, right??

WHY is it soooooo hard for everyone to take responsibility for their actions/lifestyle? My God. If you want to overeat, be a couch potato, do enormous amounts of drugs, smoke cigarettes, FINE, but why on earth should my taxes go to bail your fat unhealthy ass out of health trouble? Why? It's not right and you know it. The same people who have no problem soaking off of others like that also have no problem going on welfare. The gov.(taxpayers, ME) doesn't owe you anything! Deal with the consequences of your behavior! Pitiful!

If you have worked hard to earn a good living then you should have the best healthcare. You've earned it! Everyone is not equal. Those with ambition and intelligence should be rewarded. Do any of you even know any doctors?

Fix the obesity problem and cut the $ spent on other crap, then sure....spend it on healthcare, but until then.....take care of YOURSELF!! PREVENT!!

 

Obesity doesn't cause cancer, AIDS, broken bones or leukemia. So why should poorer people have to just go on living with these diseases/conditions with minimal care (or no care at all)? Not everyone who gets sick or injured does so as a consequence of their own actions.

The two healthcare system is the way to go, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.