explain this

for all you people who believe there is no god and that we all just apeared in the big bang, according to the big bang theory, all the matter that exists right now was all squished up into a tiny microscopic ball. then it got too conpressed and exploded and TADA!! here we are. explain this how did that matter get there in the first place? something had to put it there. things dont just appear. also how did life come around. ill accept the evolution theory but its complete bull shit to think that inanimate minerals and molecules wee just bumping around and then TADA!! the hit each other in the right way and it was alive all of a suddon and reproducing and growing. i want to se your answers to these points. time for a little debate:H

(just for the record im not any specific religion, just think that there is a god there)

 

If a "god" could come from nothing and always be around, why not energy??

I also think you are simplifying the ideas JUST a little bit...

 

energy could be but not physical matter. and thats the point its a god, they can do anything. and i never said god was there forever. maybe that energy you talked about got clustered and formed a god

 

Perfect. That's what I've always thought.

You say that the earth needs a creator..... but who created the creator???

 

Yeah, and maybe energy got together and formed pigs with wings....or a million things...why assume a god? Couldn't energy get together and form an explosion that sent particles all over the cosmos? Why make the jump to think a god had to be involved?

And who says a god can do anything? You are making up stuff with your mind and trying to find a fit for it within reality.

 

Hey dude, there is no physical matter. Physical matter is merely the crystallization of energy. As for the Big Bang theory . . . Hmm. You should really read books concerning quantum physics. Educate yourself a bit on both sides. Things become much clearer and open up many possibilities. I think you will then understand why this 'existence', physical or not, doesn't necessarily need a creator. Then you can ask yourself, well, what if this IS God? What is God anyway? To you? Is it merely what you have been told or taught. A natural assumption from simplified logic (something comes from something)? Really question your own belief. To understand yourself first will help you to understand others.

 

Yeah, when ya get down to it, we're all just bits of vibrating energy, as is everything else in the universe. Why shouldn't the spontaneous expansion of energy be responcible for the creation of the universe? We assume that there was absolutely nothing before the creation of the universe, but that's because we can't possibly comprehend anything outside or other than the universe. The world's best scientists are just beginning to understand our universe as it is.

 

its not what i have been taught. i dont beleive what i have been taught about both the science way or the organized religious way. ive been thinking for my own and was trying to get other opinions to weigh them and form my own opinion

 

but if it was just energy the particles cant just appear out of no where

 

But a god can? Why is this? You can accept that a divine being can come from no where, or has always been, but not energy? That is just silly and illogical. Logically, it is less likely for an entire being with consciousness and supernatural powers to appear outta nowhere than an energy particle.

 

ok, first you need to ask yourself. Is your god a creation of the big-bang? Or has he been around forever? Secondly, your explanation of the big-bang and the creation of life is too simple. The process of life took BILLIONS of years. There was nothing instant about it. So, the big-bang happened. and matter and energy were flung in all directions. Soon, clouds of matter began clumping together. The first galaxies began to form. Also, incrediably ancient things known as quasars were created. now then, this kept on for billions of years. Then, our sun was created. This is done by large amounts of hydrogen gas clumping together. I'd give you the entire process, but i'm kind of lazy at the moment, maybe later. So, after our sun was created, there was still left over matter. This eventually clumped together to form planets. The gas planets were made in a similar way to our sun, but they didn't have suffeciant mass to "ignite" and form a sun. so, our earth was one of the planets created. Now, here is where things get speculative. No one can say "this is how life started" cuz it's a mystery. There are many theories though. I will give you the most commonly held beleif, but again, i'm lazy, so it's the short and sweet version. At his point, earth has just formed. Volcanic gases cloaked earth in a dense choking atmosphere of water vapor, carbon dioxide and nitrogen, with some trace amounts of ammonia, methane, and hydrogen. These molecules were "split" by lightning, and then regrouped as complex organic compounds, such as amino acids. Note, that at this point, nothing is alive. Now then, a few million years later, water vapor condensed into a planet wide rainstorm, lasting millions of years. Most of the organic molecules created in part by lightning, were washed into the newly forming oceans, leaving an "air" of carbon dioxide and nitrogen, which is similar to that of present day venus and mars. now then, you hear all the talk about the primordial soup? well, this was what happened. some of that "soup" got trapped in rock pools. In these small pools, the "soup" was concentrated, and the amino acids formed to creat proteins. Other moleculs reacted to build deoxyribonucleic acid (dna) while fatty molecules formed a protective membrane that sourrounded everything. the first cells were born. Now, these creatures were single-celled. And life stayed single-celled for the next 4 billion years. Now, that's pretty amazing, considering that multi-celled life has only exsisted for 570 million years. Now then, the best evidence we have for this being the right theory, is that in 1953 a chemist named stanley miller put a mixture of gases into a flask, mimicing earth's early atmosphere. He then passed electric sparks through it overnight to mimic lightning. the next day, miller found the transparent gases had turned into an orange-brown "gunk". the "gunk" turned out to b made of several new and complex compunds, including amino acids. i hope this helps.

 

im not talking about energy particles. i understand this im saying that it makes no sense about physical things apearing out of that tiny piece of matter. and about how the physical piece came around. and like i said maybe the god is the energy

 

The concept of a 'beginning' and an 'end' is a human idea.

I believe there is no beginning or end, and that everything is infinite. No start, no end. Everything just is. Nothing came about, it just was always there.

Humans feel the need to explain everything, to understand existence.

Ask yourself this: Where did God come from? If you believe that God must have created everything in the universe for it to have been here, well then who created God?

 

Nice thread

Mary jane asks the infinite regression question...
[where did god come from.]
THINK REAL HARD ABOUT IT...

And u may just see that reality did not need to be 'created'
We silly little kids [humans]came up with that idea.

Occam suggests STUFF existed. and always has.
Everything else evolved from non sentient stuff.

Mater/energy/space has always been. Then thinking beings.
[Maybe after trillions x trillions of our years, but eventually]
How could a thinking being come first?
Was it made of dreams and wishes..

Yes.. human gods ARE made of such.

Occam

 

the simple answer is, humans can not begin to comprehend or begin to describe in language what or how existence is or "was" created and how "time" exists...
Humans are the smartest species on Plant Earth, but could be considered a Hoplessly unintelligent animal no different to a monkey, a dog, or giraff from another far distant species... a species so intelligent from places soo unknowing we cant comprehend...

surely takig lsd, will help with the deepest most sought after questions, only to leave you with a million more questions to your answers...

 

Peter

Much truth in this.

And LSD could well help in such.. Occam has used it often. And
it could help much with adapting to the unusual.

But occam thinks MANY species exist that may make us appear as lower fauna in 'their' scheme of things
Let us have our wits about us if we meet them
Think..'natural selection'
Occam

 

You explain this. How did God get there in the first place? Something had to put him there.



Look at this idea, it's called Occam's Razor. This principal states that the simplest idea (without more supporting evidence) has a higher preference than the more complex idea.

Compare these two statements:

The universe has always existed or just came into existance one day.

The universe was created by God, who has always existed or just came into existance one day.

There is no more evidence for the latter than there is for the former.

Moreover, the latter is more complex. By the principal of parsimony (Occam's Razor), the first statement takes preference over the second statement.

There is nothing wrong in believing either of these statements. However, the first statement is the most rational.



You should read this short story. It's 7 pages long, so don't worry, it won't take more than 10 minutes. It is called The Last Question and it was written by Isaac Asimov. It remains one of the absolute greatest stories I have ever written; better even than most long novels I have read. I really suggest you check it out.

 

Hiky

Exactly

Occam

Ps. Yes asimov was a cool writer, great ideas. The 3 laws.
Foundation. Much more.

Occam loves one of his quotes and can only hope to emulate it
with some success.

" I am not a speed reader, i am a speed understander"

 

but you cant prove that it was the work of some magic deity. Physics was still applicable back then and there are many forms of black matter and motion that couldve started some shit with that ball

 

Hikaru that is a great story, I remember trying to read Isaac Isamov when I was in middle school, and was like what is all this. I'm glad I understand this all more now.

I've always had a theory that man's initial response to existing is to create something in its place, such as computers, and this story fits really well with my theory.

I don't beleive in the term "God" because to me it represents another being in our galaxy that is merely more advanced than us and used us for their own benefit. This goes back to my Annunaki threads. They originally said we were going to evolve into what we are anyways, but what if this is true, with the Annunaki?

What if they had left us alone, and we naturally evolved into knowing everything there was to know, because we inside us posess the knowledge. I beleive this, and I think this is what the Gnostics/Buddhists/Hindu try to achieve. The Divine Spark, that has yet to ignite our flames of existence.