Let's imagine something. No bible, No teachings about religions or God ever, No churches, priests, nothing of that. Would you still believe there's a god?
sure, but not at all in the same way as God is understood by so many people. I, for example, am a pantheist of sorts. It's the idea that nature is divinity (basically I consider spirit and matter inseperable like two sides of a coin. You can focus on one side, but the other side is there too; there is only one coin). God is such a charged word these days, which immediately calls up certain images. But the Hindus have a God that they call Brahman, which is basically All-That-Is, but I think Brahman also is conscious (making them a panentheist spiritual system, instead of just pantheist). Anyways, the point is, there are more ways of believing in God/divinity/spirit than the old Judeo-Christo-Islamic version, where God is a strong-willed, jealous patriarch, who is basically an amped up human without a body, who loves and hates, helps and hinders, judges, condemns, gives grace and mercy, and who requires us to believe in him, as well as strict adherence to certain books that some people wrote about him. * * * I think a more interesting question would be: "if there were no heaven or hell, no afterlife at all, would you still carry on with your faith/religion?"
I agree that is a way more interesting question. Because I feel many people believe in God because they benefit from it, its interest not love or faith or anything like that... it's Im with you because if I dont I'll get fucked. I personally dont believe in God or religion. I believe in nature, and like you said all there is (still dont know all there is, but everyday I learn something new). Im into Buddhism, Taoist because its really focus on how we are a part of the universe.
I'm also influenced by Buddhism, and Taoism which is very appealing to me. But no matter how appealing, nothing fits in my mind perfectly as the one way. I can't just belong to one religion because they each are truthful perspectives. Taoism rings true in how it sees and describes the world...so does Buddhism in it's way, and Hinduism. The Western religions have a lot in them that I find distasteful (stuff I would consider "uninspired" or egoic rather than spiritual), but once that's cut out they too ring true in their perspectives. Sorry for going out on a tangent there, haha.
its ok.. I love seeing how a topic develops into something else. Yeah I dont believe in one thing neither. But those two are the ones that I find more truthful
Might as well take it a step furthur and go back to the days before 'civilization' came along. Probably... lots of people believed the whole Earth was absolutley magical and totally mystical then. I think many of them even worshipped the stars as the heavens. I forget where I read this and I'm sketchy on the details, but Im pretty sure there is something to it.
My point is to prove if a religion a being whose whole existence is based on faith, will still continue to exist if all the "evidence" of its existence dissapeared.. will there still be a faith inside people.. would they still feel it. I mean there's no proof that God is there.. you just believe in it, and a lot of people do, because this is what they have been taught to do.. like many other learned criteria. But this "lesson" is very strong, is everywhere we see. God Bless you, In God We trust, thank God, Only God Knows, the bible, history.. so its an idea we keep hearing and hearing and hearing.. so people end up accepting it. The thing is if God were to be real, you wouldnt need to know the word God, the whole religion or anything, you would know that is there.. that's where I wanted to go with the question, and then I wanted to ask how would you know that. When I get the answer because I feel it.. it would mean that god existence is particular but shared by many..if I dont feel it, it doesnt exist. I hope you get what im trying to say, its hard to explain. My purpose with all this is that all we have from God, all we hear from God is no proof there is one, in the end it all comes down to faith. Which makes his existence very doubtful.
to answer this, i put this out: would we know there was a God then (if ALL forms of religious and spiritual knowledge was removed)? for me, the answer is yes. I wil use the example of the good Samaritian. The Samaritian helped the nearly half dead man on the road. This makes him a good person, and a testament and an example of God's love. God loves us whether we are "holy" [how the Jews might have thought of themselves walking past the half dead man (i think this has somethign to do with the cleaniliness laws, but i am really unsure, so don't quote me on that)] or outcasts and "unholy" [as many Jews would have seen the Samaritians at the time]. As the two highest commandments Jesus givs are "Love God", and "Love your neighbour". The purpose of this life is to love (whether we choose to believe in God or not), and to spread that love to humankind. take care everyone
i believe in love. but i dont think that your example has anything to do with God, that's just a good person doing some good.
well as a parable, it can be seen in a few different ways...as you suggested, as an example of human kindness... as i suggested, and example of how God loves, a love that contains no borders, and peirces any exterior [unlike the preist and Levite passing by the half-dead man] or [which is another way i accept it] as an example for us and how to live and how we need not apply the strict laws and regulations to our lives to remain/be holy [i checked, and it was considered unclean for a holy man to touch a dead body], and that love is what we need (again, whether it comes from God or not) i think it might now have been so clear cause i mixed up the two of my interpretations of the parable---but hey, different person, different viewpoint much love
You say religious and spiritual knowledge together like they are one in the same. I know many very religious people who are anything BUT spiritual, though I'm sure some exist. Most are just sheep believing and going to church as a just in case type deal, they don't have real morals or values, or what you would call real faith. My problem with religion is exactly that, they make Jesus, someone with morals and values, look like some miraculous being. Fuck that, anyone can have a good moral sense and a kind heart. I also know many incredibly spiritual people who want nothing to do with religion, and are smart enough to know that you need no middle man to speak to God,Especially a prick in a funny hat who just got a 7 year old off in the back room. God resides in everyones heart, in nature, not a man made building. They know Sunday is a man made creation, and they know EVERYTHING is a creation someone came up with. And they know gratitude and maintaining a sense of morals and love is the way to 'worship' and show God love, even though he already sees you as pure love with absolute unconditional love, because thats all there really is anyway. Were just that lucky to live in a universe that is love and nothing else, I just wonder if another universe has something higher than love somwhere. Think for YOURSELF!!! With good intent and love - Scarlit
Wow. Let's talk about sweeping generalizations. What evidence (and no, personal anecdotes, no matter how many you have are NOT evidence) do you have to support this generalization? Polls? Research? Documentation? Also, what would you call "real" faith? Blind trust? There is a whole package of assumptions here. Could you please point out where they "make Jesus... look like some miraculous being"? And who is "they"? His claims to divinity are plainly written in the text. If he was just a man, then he was lying (and had few morals) or was insane (and had no sense). If you say the text was corrupted, please provide the uncorrupted text (or some other evidence of corruption). If you say that Christianity borrowed, please provide proof of borrowing. Keep in mind that a list similarities does not prove borrowing. If that logic is consistent, then lack of similarities would indicate no borrowing. There are a lot more aspects of Christianity that are dissimilar to the pagan mystery religions than there are similarities. And how do they know that? What makes them think that they are worthy of speaking to God? Really? So God lives in a forest, but not in a church? Could you explain why? So there is no truth and no justice? We live in a universe that is love and nothing else? Man, I see some pretty horrendous things in the world today. If God is love and is unconstrained by concepts of truth or justice, why doesn't he just come in a stop it all?
EHHh..please read my post again and just think, take a good hard look at it and compare it to life, just try it. Awefully scientific for a religious type. Yes, God does live in a forest. And it would do you some good to hang out in one for a day and think about that. Hell... print my post and take it, study it, I promise you'll get furthur there than being bored in a church building pretending to be a good person in front of other phonies and wasting time doing no good to the world, not even the observable kind you pretend to be concerned about. THAT is religion, and you know it. Sorry if it hurts, no one said the truth was healthy. And doesnt the bible say, that God ignores those who worship and pray in front of others?
we are incurably "religious"(i cant stand that word). BUt if there was no teaching about GOd, we would probably still pray and go by spiritual experiences. personally i dont know how anyone can look at the moon and not believe in God.
I look at the moon alot. I even howl at it when I am turning into a werewolf. What?? You don't believe in werewolves?!?
well acctually i said "religious and spiritual knowledge...AND is a word that indicates two different ideas, but connects them. My point was not only for the Abrahamic God, or Braman, or Ahura Mazda or ANYTHIGN SPECIFIC. my posts intention was adressing EVERY faith system, religion, spiritual thought. My question was if human kind did not know ANYTHIng to do with God, Religion, Spiituality or anyhtign of the like, woud we know there is a God? Why do you put "what you would cal real faith"? the corect wording there should be "what i cal real faith" beause you don't know what "real faith" is for me, do you? And it isnt the intention of the gospels to make Jesus out like only a person with good morals and values 1) They make Him out to be divine, and 2) they make Him a man of love, whose compasion for all the people that He meets [regardless of their "morals and values" as you say] you know, i don't like the authority of the catholic church as the next guy, but what with the sweeping generalizations? implaying that EVERYOEN who has power in the catholic church is a pedo degrades your argument IMO. PSSSSSTTTT. only the catholics use a systemized oconfession system too, the Eastern Orthodox church says that you should tell an "elder" of your sins so that you can work it out, and the elder can be anyone more experienced than you, but the main goal is to change from sinning--i won't mention prodestanism, cause thye dpon't even have confession, which is what i am assuming you are alluding to WTF? do you know me? i don't think so---lay off the reverse-preaching please. I love when Christians [regardless of who they are] are mindless sheep, but most of the arguments against it are the same [Pedofiles!!!, Churches are man made, not by God...THINK FOR YOUR-BLOODY-SELF]..how bout you think for yourself and come up with better arguments to why i shoudl no believe in God's love and the love of Jesus, and why i can't attend a church? oh wait YOU'RE GOING TO HELL, cause thats what you wanted me to say right?
Yes because my religion doesnt come from churches, priests, teaches, or especially the bible. It comes from seeing the Earth as my Mother, and thinking on my ancestors. None of which is taught. And to answer Trippin, yes i would still have my beliefs, because regardless of an afterlife, they make me a better, honorable, more noble man in my day to day life. I strive to be of a certain ideal, which is deeply based in my religious beliefs. I do it to grow in my physical world, with the afterlife being an afterthought.
I don't know if I'd go along with the idea that most religious people are the way you described, I think it's like with any other group of people--the assholes just stand out more--but I have to say a big Amen to everything else you said Scarlit. And I don't know if you realise this but you just paraphrased most of the more important points in the gospels. Which is why I think it's funny as hell to watch christians arguing with you.
Unless I was somehow contacted dirrectly by God, I would still believe that there is a God based off the complexity of the earth and what's in it.
