How do Just wondering if or how anyone here deals with the guilty for being male type thing that can happen sometimes. I'm not stressing, just a little observation. Walking down an empty street for example. Then there's just you and a woman ahead of you. She hears you and goes all nervous. That's ok, I understand in this day and age. Anyway. Thought process for us blokes: "oh shit, i've got to overtake her quick or cross onto the other side or something, let her chill out." I remember once when I was walking the dog and a girl ahead of me stopped just so that i could pass and be ahead of her. The dog chose that time to stop too!! ahhhhh, frustrating! and embarrassing! Some girls might reply to this thread saying its not just men, it's any stranger. No! I'm sorry! But it really is quite noticable the attitude to a strange man rather than a woman. I see it a lot (from other men too.) So there's ettiquette to follow when you are predominantly presumed guilty. Any blokes here get fed up with having to tip-toe all the time? What different examples do you have? Have you been able to resolve any pre-judgements of you or do you just take it? (-like a man-HA! ) ~
It's true. I am afraid of men when I walk alone at night. It's nothing personal though. And I am very glad that you feel, that the women is afraid. I usually just try to pretend I am very selfsecure. But I have never heard of a women being raped here in my area. So Idunno. Maybe it's just that women know that they are physically weaker then a man.
I'm glad you're glad I feel how they might feel As for nothing personal.... hmmm yes that's right. But it can start to wear you down personally. Take racism in the police force for example. Always stopping the young black man with an expensive car. "He must have stolen it" They're thinking. He's presumed guilty because of a stereotype. I'm not just talking of walking down streets, that was just an example. I was thinking more of the broader topic of Guilt. I remember studying for my A-level Literature. (ages16-18) I was the only guy in the class. The syllabus was 'modern women's short stories' etc. Nearly all the stories were about how bad men are. Why they are all bastards. All the wrong they've done. In historical analysis and balanced approach I had no problem with it. It's just that everyone transfered a lot on to me. Some teenager that hasn't oppressed or abused anyone in their life. I was presumed guilty because of my gender. I'm trying to keep this light-hearted I hope! Only wondered if any other men had to wrangle with being pre-judged due to their sex. ~
I have the ability to ‘sneak up on’/startle Folks in the course of normal movement. To minimize this, I try to speak out/make noise when proceeding thru the Fog. Sometimes it works others it doesn’t…
Well, first off, I am convinced that I am one of the most selfless, harmless, and friendliest guys out there when it comes to strangers (women in particular) although I'm not necessarily extroverted, so sometimes I do get particularly frustrated with this phenomenon. But you can't blame them. I lot of horrible shit can really happen, and it does time to time. This thing especially happens when I am on my motorcycle. I feel like I tend to get labeled as a savage biker even though I'm not really. It is a double edged sword though. To some ladies that is a turn on and for others they want to run for their lives. I guess this is changing the subject a little but what bothers me most is when my social intentions are purely friendly with women and they automattically assume my intentions are solely to pick them up, so they become stand-off-ish. Then they complain "where are all the friendly guys". To me, I value acquaintences and friendships more, right now, than a quick romance. I just wish women could see that more readily. But then again, a lot of guys aren't the same. So I guess its not all that bad to deal with
if i'm walking somewhere, say a dark street at night, and i hear someone behind me, i tense up and glance back. immediately. i'm on the smaller side, so maybe it's some sort of natural response, like, "hey, something larger is approaching." my first response is never, "crap, let me clutch my keys and find my knife!" (unless it's some situation like i'm closing alone at work and have to take the drop to the bank and someones been lurking in the shadows). i always turn around to see who's behind me, and then judge them. there are a lot of crackheads in my town, but there are also a lot of college students. so no matter how late it is, a good mix of people are out. maybe it's just a friendly drunk kid, or a dog-walker, or a late-night jogger. so if there's a guy behind me who looks alright, i'm just as likely to be releaved. especially if it's a guy, i'd imagine two women are better than one, but would still appear more vulnerable than if one (or both!) were men. even if the person is walking a good distance behind me, it's still kinda like, "well, at least there's a witness just in case someone's lurking in the bushes!" it would detract the criminal from acting, like if i had flashed a gun or was walking a rottwieler. so how about that twist on things? doesn't that sort of reinforce the stereotype that guys are strong, and they've gotta be the protectors (and it also says women are weak)? my reaction to a seemingly decent guy on the street acknowledges that others see men that way, so am i indirectly perpetuating it (by giving weight to the others ideas)? i wouldn't expect that he fight while i cry helplessly, but i imagine a potential attacker would expect that to happen. i don't think the guy is a gun or a dog, but i do see that others will see that objectification of him... but does the fact that i see that and use that mean it is bad? or is this the sort of instance, if any, when it might be acceptable? does it reinforce the stereotype than men are intrepid if confronted by something fearful.. they're strong, and fight, and he will take care of himself and you? i don't know what that would have to do with guilt, though... but maybe it's frustrating? do you guys ever tense up if you hear another guy behind you? or do you generally feel safe when walking around?
Like a lot of things, it's learned. My dad's always telling me that as a young woman, I have to be careful when I am alone with a guy I don't know, especially at night. Like if I pass a guy on the street. Now, I'm not exactly a damsel in distress- I can take care of myself, and I do believe that most people are harmless, but when you're taught something from when you were a little kid, sometimes it's hard to ignore. It's really not intended to be a personal thing. It has nothing to do with you, or anyone else as an individual. It's just one of those things a lot of girls were taught and is pretty hard to shake.
Hi dhARmaMiLlO Read this yesterday and made myself stop and do some thinking about how often I do this. Came to the conclusion that it is too often. Did some thinking as I am not sure why. I know that from childhood there is the reinforcement of caution for example about walking alone or being in a potentially dangerous situation and have a feeling that carries through adulthood. Part of that is that there are those out there that will act out but reality is that it is not most and yet we still can not get past that initial fear or caution. You are right in that it is not only in the instance of for example that walking at night it is woven through the patterns of thinking in general. As in the example of the class you took, where just by being the male in the class that energy would of gone to you. Not sure how to change it but know it is there.
Thanks for the empathy and acknowledgement Heat There are more example areas, yes, i hope some more men will come in and talk about them. A lot of attitudes do have a genuine seed to their eventual manifestation that can be justifiable. I suppose it's just a case of awareness and empathy within caution rather than pre-judgment and labelling as automatic threat. I think we've solved the 'suspicious of a man in a dark alley' example - its just a fact of life and this caution exists for a very good reason! ~ how tall are you? I'm 6ft2, I suppose this doesn't help either! ~ Heyup You're not changing the subject you've actually moved on from my isolated example further into the topic, cheers! I've had this problem big style. Sometimes the self-flattery of the woman can irk you when all you wanted to do was have a normal conversation. In my experience, from speaking with my female friends too, women generally have trouble identifying between 'predator' man and 'friendly' man. In both ways i.e. I had a woman friend being surrounded by, what was obvious to me, blokes that just wanted to get into her knickers and she had no idea. "They're my friends" -Oh dear... I could see their fake smiles and laughter at at her jokes etc. Things to spot: 1. He's staring at you (or even worse - just a part of your anatomy) with a whistful gaze. 2. He think's everything you say is right. 3. Inuendos are picked up on to joke about. It's called flirting! 4. He's told a lie or exagerated.. etc. c'mon girls learn the psychology! (Yes, i've generalised) It seems the only way to get close to a woman you've just met is to demonstrate lack of predator motives in mind-numbingly blatant ways. Like approaching her with a girlfriend, going away and ignoring her now and again etc. I hate these mind games men are forced into. Anyway, as I was saying before i digressed, I don't know what it is but i get the 'automatically assumed guilty of being a predator' quite a lot. And no i don't conform to the above list!! ~ p.s. I wonder how many radical feminists would be heard to say 'just a fact of life'? (note the word radical here).
This also brings up the point of judging someones appearance. I guess I just must look like a predator sometimes. To be very honest I am not a "player" and very rarely engage in promiscuous sex or sex outside of relationships, but I have been told on multiple occaisions by fairly new women aquaintences that I "look like a player" or I "look like a guy who has been with a lot of women". In fact the last woman I was in a relationship with told me that in the beginning she was reluctant to get involved with me because she was convinced that I was just a "player". I really don't get it at all!!! I am nothing like that. I think the reason sometimes that people get this opinion of me on first impression is that I like to workout and tend to be more muscular than average, and I often wear a ball cap backwards. People automattically label me as a "jock-type", although I am somewhat athelitic, they're judgement of me couldn't be more wrong! I'm am really a hippie at heart no matter what I wear. It is really interesting to me how much differently people react to me when I a dressed like a "hippie" when I had long hair versus when I am dressed like a "jock" and currently have short hair. It is very frustrating to say the least. I am the same person no matter how I am dressed. My true, long-term friends realize this, however new aquaintences are apt to stereotype me very inaccurately. last thought: I think also that a lot of people (women) think that the only reason men workout (lift weights) are to impress women. This is the last thing on my mind when I am thinking about working out. I do it to be healthy, challenge myself, and for the natural high. Working out is also a very eco-friendly activity if you think about it!
To the OP.. I think that if you get all nervous about the fact that you might be making a girl nervous for walking behind her.. it'll make things worse. She'll probably pick up that you're feeling uncomfortable.. my advice: whistle a happy tune.. or talk baby talk to your dog or sth.. hehe.. act cool & normal.. but yeah, sometimes you just can't help it. Don't feel bad about it though.. even though you said it yourself, it's not about you, it's about a unknown guy walking behind her/us. Hey.. this is really insightful.. never realised that men could get uncomfy because of sth like that.. now I feel guilty about the men who picked up MY uncomfy vibes when they were walking close to me.. haha!
yeah, it is awful for the person feeling uncomfortable because of the man coming up behind them - and it seems that it's awful for the man sensing the dread too. but (and this is the truly awful thing) i think it's just so sad that people need to be on this alert. Like, you can't afford to become complacent about shadowy figures in the dark. Obviously the majority of men are lovely - as is shown by the guys on these forums/this thread. however, even knowing that I'm still not hugely comfortable walking around by myself at night, even though i'm a fairly strong girl and i've been taught self defence at school and the like since I was about 9 (very useful, but also adding to the fear mongering perhaps?). Anyway, i'd love to be comfortable in the night, but there are just too many horror stories. eh, i can't quite articulate what i'm trying to say - i guess it's just that i feel sympathetic to you guys who actually are lovely, it really does suck that just by being you can unintentionally make girls nervous. As for us, it sucks that we have to be scared of shadows, especially as the majority mean no harm.
This very thing has happened to me several times.I used to close the store where I worked and walk home a lot,often walking the night deposit to the bank. Sometimes a lone woman would see me coming up mand get visibly afraid.I would feel bad for her,sometimes I had the chance to say something to oput her at ease,but more often it was best just to keep going,since a few words could make it worse. I am a fairly big guy,at about 6'2" and I often looked a bit scruffy,but I would never hurt anyone unless I had no choice.(self defense)
When I went to university I was told that as a young white straight male I was responsible for every evil on earth. I personally stomped those little babies when Columbus landed in the New World, and I'm responsible for all the racism and class privilege. I was actually burned in effigy for responding to an anti-male rant as part of a classroom exercise. I responded by turning into the most vile dittohead type imaginable. Now settling back into being crunchy but I will continue to be a misanthrope thanks grumble
Hi, just a quick note that the walking at night thing was just an example, not the point of the thread... just incase peeps forgot. As for being burnt in effigy, heheh, i know how silly it can get sometimes. Some people just generalise. I try not to generalise my view of feminists from the men bashing ones i've met. I'm sure there are equalitists out there. Just only met feminists that think i automatically owe them an apology for being born a man! haha! ~
I think society thinks that if a woman walks alone in the dark, some guy is likely to come out of nowhere and rape her. Really, like no rapes happen that way, its possible, just unlikely. Most rapes happen to girls from guys they know, or met at a party or something.
hmm, green, I've read up on this, and actually you're quite right that a lot of the time rapes happen from men that the girl knows, but it happens randomly on the street quite a bit. To these wonderful men who have discovered that 'being a man' isn't about being an aggressive sexhunter, and instead give the respect due a female (note, I am no self-righteous feminist--I think that males are due respect as well ), thank you. I have been raped, and I still have injuries that I deal with daily from that experience. It has been a year and half since then. One of the guys who knew it was happening is now in a play that I work as a stage manager in. He's friendly, popular with the little girls, helpful, and most don't recognize the creepiness that a few women I know can see behind his eyes and smile. He's a normal, 'handsome' man, yet he is an actor in more than the play. To those girls who too often worry about men in dark alleys, I recommend the book The Gift of Fear. It's actually written by a man, one who works with thousands of women whoh have been raped, abused, etc. One of his basic prevention lessons is to trust your intuition. All your life you build intuition naturally, and although your body/mind may know that something is dangerous or wrong unconciously, it tells you by releasing chemicals that create sensations that we recognize as fear. Personally I know that there is more to intuition than that, but that's irrelevant. So he says, release all worry. Listen to the fear when you feel it. Let it guide you. It has many great stories about women who have trusted themselves. Another wonderful, wonderful book is The Vagina Monologues. I also recommend these books for the men. You may have a greater understanding of women once you read them, and maybe you'll find better, more effective ways to communicate your good intentions.
