Hinduism & Paganism

To start off, I know that 'paganism' is a rather woolly term which applies to a wide spectrum of beliefs - nonetheless, it does exist as a definite area of spirituality.
Sometimes it is defined as 'worship of the gods of one's anscestors' or something similar - which would make Hinduism a form of paganism. At least so far as Indian people are concerned.

It strikes me that there are very many similarities between Hinduism and Pagan beliefs. More so than between Hinduism and Christianity.
Both believe ultimately in one God underlying everything expressed through various forms of gods and goddesses etc.
Both believe in a certain leeway as regards practices - there are different paths within each system, and these are thought of as applicable to different types of person.
Many pagans also believe in some form of reincarnation.
Both worship the forces of nature under personified forms.
In some aspects, both paths worship a Goddess or Divine World-Mother.

Any thoughts?

 

For me, "pagan" has a lifetime of bad connotations, because I was brought up Christian...it always brings up images of hairy barbarians skinning missionaries, or something similar. As a consequence, I've skipped over anything with that label.

I do know that the term pagan has now moved way past mainly pejorative use.

Very informative post.

 

My roommate and many of my friends are Wiccans and this girl who worked at the literary magazine with me in high school was a Druid...I def. have seen the similarities that you pointed out....

 

Before I became familiar with Paganism as a term (which, as I understand it, encompasses a wide range of beliefs), I always said my beliefs lean to Hinduism. I also have a lot of respect for Native American beliefs - I think these are compatible with Hinduism as well.

 

I know just what you mean Spook.
I have joked with pagan followers before now that I am a 'real pagan', hence the big pile of enemy's bones outside my door.
The term pagan is often used just to denote unbelievers in christianity (or Islam) as is the word heathen. Both words originally denote a country dwelling person - a rustic.(pagan from latin peganus = rural). It has become a loaded term.
To clarify my own perceptions- it is a big area, which encompasses some quite diverse things. On one hand there are contemporary pagans - or neo-pagans as they're sometimes called - Wiccans, Druids, Celts etc. They follow paths which are largely reconstructed in fairly recent times - although Wicca can claim some connection to trad British 'witchcraft'. There are also followers of things like occultism, magick etc. Some of this derives from Greek, Hebrew and Egyptian sources.
And increasingly, followers of shamanic type beliefs, or indigenous beliefs, are also refered to as pagans.
There's also historical paganism, such as Graeco-Roman and so on. It is within Greek and later hellenistic philosophy that there is the greateset philosophical development of paganism, in the works of writers like Plato and Plotinus. (neo-platonism, the philosophy of Plotinus and followers was later to have a major impact on Christian theology)In both cases, there is much similarity to some Indian philosophy, which has prompted scholars to speculate that there may have been some Indian influence at least on Plato, and the Athenean school to which he belonged, although nothing definite has been established. It is possible though given both the Greek's prominence in navigation and trade. Possibly Indian ideas reached Greece via the Persian empire.
I think that possibly, here in the UK, paganism is nowerdays becoming more 'respectable' - another idea I have is that Britain was never truly 'converted' to Christianity, and remains, just below the surface, a pagan land. By that I mean that the consciousness of the pre-christian Britons is still around somehow, if one can be open to feel it. In places like Stonehenge and other ancient stone circles or even wild places, one can sometimes feel a connection to the earth, and the wider cosmos, physical and spiritual, that somehow these people had, living as they did lives close to the earth and in harmony with the seasons and changes of nature.
In India, it seems, this was never lost completely as it seems to have been in europe. Hinduism retains the unbroken connection to the ancient world. But it is something that the west has largely lost, and perhaps needs urgently to re-connect with.

Anyway, that's my little romanticization of paganism - for want of a better word....

 

My definition of "pagan" is "other". That is any spiritual practice differing from mainstream Christianity, Islam, or Judism. The traditional definition was literally, "country people", or "rural dweller". Many friends who call themselves pagan, embrace various aspects of the Vedic traditions. Some of us try and incorporate aspects of many paths including Cristianity. The difference between spells and prayer, are just semantics!

Jim

 

As did and does the Native American Indian. This beliefs transcend continents.

I agree completely.

 

Yes I think you're right.

I only mention Britain as an example because it's where I live and what I'm familiar with.
This is one of the stones of Mitchell's Fold Circle, about 6 miles from my home. Said to be 3,500 years old. It is a magical place. The stone in the photo by itself reminds me of a lingam as worshipped in India.

 

I absolutely believe in magical and spiritual places. If you make it over here, you should check out the Grand Canyon and Sedona, both in Arizona (acutally I feel this way about almost all of Arizona). Of course you will need to get off the beaten path and away from the tourists, but it's easy to do. The Grand Canyon is my center and I live too far away from it.

 

I'd love to see those Arizona deserts for real. Maybe oneday...

 

Not intended to be flippish:

Aren't pagans the equivalent of spiritual rednecks or Coelacanths?

They seem to behind the rest of the world in spiritual grace, but, like rednecks, are pretty kickass in their neck of the woods. Coelacanths are still around and are pretty kick ass fish.

 

It might appear that some of the followers so-called of mono-theistic religions like Christianity and Islam are more worthy of the word redneck.


Here's another place close to where I live with magical connections - The Devil's Chair - in traditional Shropshire lore, the abode of witches and even 'old nick' himself. Perhaps in pre-christian times it was associated with some celtic or other deity, and later 'demonized' by missionaries. It is on a high ridge from which you can see for miles up into the Cambrian mountains of Wales.

 

Yeah, Bill, "pagan" is still a very loaded term, especially in the Bible-belt USA. I can't get used to it, even though it's use by more broad-minded persons encompasses a lot of ideas and traditions.

Maybe we've developing a spiritual equivalent of racism in the USA now..."religionism", with the Christians using "pagan" in the same manner as the Klan used "n....r".

 

My first encounter with the word Pagan was in a movie, something like A Pagan Romance or something... It was very beautiful in some ways...

But later on I ran into it in Church where it was explained to me that pagan meant foolish. Needless to say I didnt spend long in that church.

But after moving to Ohio I made a lot of Wiccan friends. Then I learnt the depth of the simliarity. In terms of rituals there ae very many similarities. The calling of the directions for example - is almost identical from the sandhya vandana ritual.

 

I guess you'd be more familiar with the situation in the southern US- As an outsider it seems to me like you'd be classified as no better than a 'pagan' if you're into Krishna Connsciousness.
In the UK things are different - we don't have Christianity at the same intensity, and these days, it's really a very politically correct attitude to religion that is the 'official' line. Multi-culturalism, we are told all the time, is a good thing.
My own Christian background was Catholic - and many say they're half pagan anyway!
But look at this - from the US Army Chaplain's Handbook - it shows also the same PC attitude -

What is Wicca?

(Excerpt from The US Army Chaplain's Handbook)



Historical Origin:



Wicca is a reconstruction of the Nature worship of tribal Europe, strongly influenced by the living Nature worship traditions of tribal peoples in other parts of the world. The works of such early twentieth century writers as Margaret Murray, Robert Graves and Gerald B. Gardner began the renewal of interest in the Old Religion.



After the repeal of the anti-Witchcraft laws in Britain in 1951, Gardner publicly declared himself a Witch and began to gather a group of students and worshipers. In 1962, two of his students, Raymond and Rosemary Buckland (religious names: Lady Rowen and Robat), emigrated to the United States and began teaching Gardnerian Witchcraft here. At the same time, other groups of people came interested through reading books by Gardner and others.



Many covens were spontaneously formed, using rituals created from a combination of research and individual inspiration. These self-created covens are today regarded as just as valid as those who can trace a "lineage" of teaching back to England. In 1975, a very diverse group of covens who wanted to secure protections and benefits of church status formed Covenant of the Goddess (CoG), which is incorporated in the state of California and recognized by the Internal Revenue Service. CoG does not represent all, or even a majority of Wiccans. A coven or an individual need not be affiliated with CoG in order to validly practice the religion. But CoG is the largest single public Wiccan organization, and it is cross-Traditional (i.e. non-denominational).



Basic Beliefs:



Wiccans worship the sacred as immanent in Nature, often personified as Mother Earth and Father Sky. As polytheists, they may use many other names for Deity. Individuals will often choose Goddesses or Gods from any of the world's pantheons whose stories are particularly inspiring and use those Deities as a focus for personal devotions. Similarly, covens will use particular Deity names as a group focus, and these are often held secret by the groups. It is very important to be aware that Wiccans DO NOT in any way worship or believe in "Satan," "the Devil," or any similar entities. They point out that "Satan" is a symbol of rebellion against and inversion of the Christian and Jewish traditions.



Wiccans do not revile the Bible. They simply regard it as one among many of the world's mythic systems, less applicable than some to their core values, but still deserving just as much respect as any of the others. Most Wiccan groups also practice magic, by which they mean the direction and use of "psychic energy," those natural but invisible forces which surround all living things. Some members spell the word "magick," to distinguish it from sleight of hand entertainments.



Wiccans employ such means as dance, chant, creative visualization and hypnosis to focus and direct psychic energy for the purpose of healing, protecting and aiding members in various endeavors. Such assistance is also extended to non-members upon request.





Many, but not all, Wiccans believe in reincarnation. Some take this as a literal description of what happens to people when they die. For others, it is a symbolic model that helps them deal with the cycles and changes within this life. Neither Reincarnation nor any other literal belief can be used as a test of an individual's validity as a member of the Old Religion. Most groups have a handwritten collection of rituals and lore, known as a Book of Shadows. Part of the religious education of a new member will be to hand copy this book for him or herself. Over the years, as inspiration provides, new material will be added. Normally, access to these books is limited to initiated members of the religion.



Practices And Behavioural Standards:



The core ethical statement of Wicca, called the "Wiccan Rede" states "an it harm none, do what you will." The rede fulfills the same function as does the "Golden Rule" for Jews and Christians; all other ethical teachings are considered to be elaborations and applications of the Rede. It is a statement of situational ethics, emphasizing at once the individual's responsibility to avoid harm to others and the widest range of personal autonomy in "victimless" activities.



Wicca has been described as having a "high-choice" ethic. Because of the basic Nature orientation of the religion, many Wiccans will regard all living things as sacred, and show a special concern for ecological issues. For this reason, individual conscience will lead some to take a pacifist position. Some are vegetarians. Others will feel that, as Nature's way includes self-defense, they should participate in wars that they conscientiously consider to be just.



The religion does not dictate either position, but requires each member to thoughtfully and meditatively examine her or his own conscience and to live by it. Social forces generally do not yet allow Witches to publicly declare their religious faith without fear of loss of job, child custody challenges, ridicule, etc. Prejudice against Wiccans is the result of public confusion between Witchcraft and Satanism. Wiccans in the military, especially those who may be posted in countries perceived to be particularly intolerant, will often have their dogtags read "No Religious Preference."



Concealment is a Wiccan defense against persecution, so non-denominational dogtags should not contravene a member's request for religious services.



Wiccans celebrate eight festivals, called "Sabbats," as a means of attunement to the seasonal rhythms of Nature. These are:


January 31* [Called Oimelc, Brigit, or February Eve],
March 21 [Ostara or Spring Equinox],

April 30 [Beltane or May Eve],

June 22 [Midsummer, Litha or Summer Solstice],

July 31 [Lunasa or Lammas],

September 21 [Harvest, Mabon, or Autumn Equinox],

October 31 [Samhain, Sowyn or Hollows],

December 21 [Yule or Winter Solstice].



Some groups find meetings within a few days of those dates to be acceptable, others require the precise date. In addition, most groups will meet for worship at each Full Moon, and many will also meet on the New Moon. Meetings for religious study will often be scheduled at any time convenient to the members, and rituals can be scheduled whenever there is a need (i.e. for a healing). Ritual jewellery is particularly important to many Wiccans.

 

Being an open "Hare Krishna" in the area of the US I live in is, in the minds of many, no better than being a baby-eating devil worshipper.

It seems odd, though I know it's ingrained...Catholics and Protestants are generally-conservative Christians, but there is often hostility between them here, thought it's not violent. It's usually ideological and comes from the Protestant side. I guess they just can't get over past gripes, here and especially in the UK.

The US armed services are have an official policy of religious and racial tolerance as well as gender equality. The racial-tolerance aspect is very ingrained in US military culture now and high-ranking minority officers are commonplace. I have heard news stories about harrasment of minority-religion soldiers and service academy cadets by fundie Christian peers and immediate superiors, but I think this tends to be incidental. The most controversial social issue in the US military now is the gays-in-uniform question. It seems like the scandals and problems that initially accompanied women being fully accepted in the armed services have smoothed out...maybe the ongoing war with it's weekly quota of non-discriminatory death has served to help push petty gender concerns aside.

The USA is a country that is divided in many ways, racially and ideologically, even though we Americans live within the same geographical boundaries and pay our taxes to the same dude. We went through almost unimaginably huge changes here in the 60's and 70's and the current political and religious climate is a reaction to the recent very fast liberalization of attitudes on just about everything. The abortion debate is the single most divisive issue in America now. Attitudes toward multiculturalism are also a hot topic...an open attitude is endorsed at the federal level, in public schools and most universities, and by large-corporation management. However, at the private level, attitudes tend to be much more consevative and often quite reactionary.

 

Thanks for that Spook.

Just a couple of things - the conflict between Catholic and Protestant over here is largely confined to Northern Ireland, and really has little to do with religion. It's much more a political conflict where the name of religion has been ursurped.

On the question of multi-culturalism, it's the same here - the official attitude is that tolerance and equality should prevail, but privately many are intolerant, more especially these days of Muslims, who represent quite a large ethnic group in Britain, although they are still only a tiny, if vocal, percentage of the population. I feel myself that in their case, it's partly because they are not very tolerant of other religions and cultures themselves - or thats the perception anyway. The intolerance of the native Brits to Islam is probably because it's seen as a threat, and many Muslims here make little attempt to integrate into society, but have their own Islamic schools etc.

We have the same debate over abortion, although at a much lesser level of intensity than in the US. Probably because religion has much less influence here, and less input into politics.
The latest 'liberalization' contoversy has come with the new law which now allows gay couples to marry in civil ceremonies. Elton John and partner are evidently planning a big do later this month.

As you say, the 60's and 70's brought big changes - some good some perhaps not so great, and it seems society on both sides of the Atlantic is still reeling from that to some extent. Over here though, the 80's were also a decade of massive changes, esp. in the social fabric of the nation, and in the rise of a kind of very negative form of individualism.

Just to add that I thought the US Army Chaplain's Handbook does quite a good job of summarizing Wiccan beliefs.

 

That seems to be a very comprehensive descrition...I passed it on to my wife because she and a friend want to know more facts about the subject--thanks for posting.

Regarding ethnic Muslims, they're spread a lot more thinly in the USA than England, so there's not really any friction to speak of, at least in my area. All the furor after 9-11-01 has died down and random hate crimes against them aren't in the news like they were for awhile. There's a lot of sympathy for the Iraqi people who are suffering because of the war and even those who strongly support the US military presence there are having a hard time with this.

 

In this country, a great many people were against the Iraq war from the start. The Govt. only sold the idea on the basis of dodgy intelligence, dirty tactics, and 'spin'. Lies in the end.
I don't like either US or British troops being in Iraq - I feel sympathy for the ordinary Iraqis, and also for the guys on the ground who have to face suicide bombers etc on a daily basis.

 

I'd be interested to know about that ritual Bhaskar. My ongoing studies showed me long ago that the concept of the four directions is significant in nearly all cultures. The fourfold division of the directions, of the elements and their association with gods, guardians or angels is very similar in many 'pagan' systems. It is also prominent in such diverse things as Tibetan Buddhism and Native American ritual. Even in Christianity, the 4 archangels are associated with the 4 directions. Sometimes the 4 evangelists too, esp. in 'hieratic' Christian art.
One symbol often used in this context is the crossed circle - again something which crops up all over the globe - I'm not sure if I've encountered it in terms of Hinduism, but it's everywhere from Hopiland to Ireland to Tibet to Mongolia, so no doubt it's also know in India.