How Serious Is HPPD?

I thought it would be a good idea to discuss the potential dangers of psychedelics, since most discussions center around the benefits. I have been reading about HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perceptual Disorder) lately. I guess a concern of mine is the lack of research and knowledge of the potential dangers of psychedelics. Moreover, there seems to be contradiction and hyperbole in discussions of HPPD. According to Dr. Abraham, who coined the term HPPD, doing drugs like LSD is like playing Russian roulette because 1-5% end up with HPPD (hallucinations or distortions of perception persisting long after the effects of the drug should have ceased). Some people end up permanently impaired, with hallucinations and distortions of perception that won't go away, making it difficult if not impossible for them to continue living life normally. A term informally used to describe this condition is "permafried."

Here is Erowid's HPPD Vault:

http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/health/hppd/

 

HPPD generally isn't serious enough to drastically reduce the quality of one's life; while it's quite possible that psychedelics can trigger latent mental illnesses such as schitzophrenia or psychosis, I have yet to meet anyone (or even hear of anyone) who was permanently bed-ridden because of HPPD...

 

I have slight symptoms, anybody who doses out and shit probably has some degree of HPPD... I've heard of a higher rate of HPPD in poly-drug abusers who are into salvia, and I know someone personally who was severely weirded out from smoking that shit too much.

 

http://hppdonline.com/index.php

Above is a link to HPPDonline. You might want to check the message boards there. Anyone with HPPD, or who knows someone with HPPD, should feel free to respond in this thread.

My impression is that it's a very small minority of users who develop severe symptoms.

 

I certainly would not consider HPPD a dangerous aspect of the drug. I have full blown HPPD I would say, and I look at it as a good thing. It is the difference between myself and normal beings. I would not call it good or bad, just like the drugs themselves it is what you make it, and it is up to you how much you let it affect you.

 

I dont even think it should be called a disorder (damn doctors) I would like to call it a reorder(Lol is that a word)

 

Well, what is it that you experience, as opposed to how you were before you took psychedelics?

[Interestingly, all psychedelics seem to have the potential for giving people HPPD. One guy has even posted at HPPDonline that marijuana gave him HPPD.]

 

I highly agree with 2cesar that anyone who trips often probably has symptoms. I just cannot believe it has a name. Good way for sober people to look down on psychedelics if you ask me. Bunch of B.S.

 

i definitely have some of the symptoms: i notice movement in my peripheral vision, subtle breathing effects, tracers, etc. i think i got it from LSD rather than from shrooms because the symptoms resemble LSD more. the symptoms get more pronounced when i am very tired, ie late at night.

but, until i knew about hppd i thought it was just fun and games, so clearly it doesn't affect my normal everyday life whatsoever. in fact, on the contrary, it has made me more sensitive to marijuana so i don't have to smoke much to get super stoned and i also get visuals when i smoke weed, which is an excellent benefit.

all in all, i'd say that there are permanent changes but that they are rather enjoyable. also, it should be noted that technically you don't have hppd UNLESS it drastically fucks with your everyday life---that is one of the main qualifiers of the "disorder."

peace.

 

For a few people HPPD can actually be debilitating. I just checked HPPDonline and found that there are a few active users, whereas psychedelic forums are typically very active. This would seem to indicate that HPPD is somewhat overblown. It seems for very few people HPPD is a very serious problem which makes life difficult.

 

I went to a boarding school with someone who had HPPD and he would wake up in the middle of the night and come screaming out of his room and he would run into things as well as rooms that he was not really wanted in. This kid, however, was 16 years old and he had been using lsd heavilly for quite some time before he was diagnosed with HPPD, but it was under a different name that basically describes the same symptoms. Due to the lack of the general populus having experience with psychedelics, there is undoubtedly confusion in the medical fields that would properly and scientifically study and document cases like this.

As I recall, Shane would talk about seeing tracers and lights that would explode into colors and wake him up, and then he would freak out and go into a state of unparalleled psychosis for a brief amount of time. That was his way of taking charge over his condition, but it was like watching dr. jekyl turn from mr. hyde x10. It was extremely rare that he would go through that experience, and he was on a large amount of seroquel to control his "rage" disorder that followed his experiences, but it was like the meds didn't exist if he was out and about. It was seriously a bad issue for him, but he was doing tremendous amounts of lsd for a period of about 6 weeks in order to completely blow his lid like that. 16 and fucked for life man... I wonder how he's doing today... He had the money at that age to buy a large supply of cid and not be caught by his parents, who really had no clue what all he was into. I loved that kid like a brother, but damn...the rule seems to be "Don't be Dumb!" - my RA freshmen year told us that in relation to alcohol and drug use in the dorm, and it was by far the best advice he could have given to a dorm full of potheads and hippies... take the minimal dose first, and build from there... that's the way to prevent stupid mistakes... that an pre-trip education and preparation..... Otherwise you're askin' for trouble in a big bad way...

 

i was never a heavy doser, but it took about 5 or 6 years clean for my head to feel clear again. although the visuals werent too frequent and ended alot sooner.

 

That's fucked.. How much is a lot of lsd though? Like, was he eating a ten strip a day or some shit? Six weeks isn't long to be an acid dropper. Similar thing happened to a childhood friend of mine, but not as fast-paced as that. We went through bullshit catholic middle school then finally got to go to a public high school, and he responded to the change by getting into drugs heavily. In like a year, he did lots of shit, but at the time LSD was VERY popular with young teenagers in my school, so he ate a bunch of that on top of the various pharms/k/opiates/rolls/mushrooms probably some cocaina in there too... He ended up being a fucked up kid, eventually getting into so much trouble, he just got sick of it and dropped out of school. A few years passed before I heard anything about him, and then I heard some fucked up shit happened with his family (not a new occurrence, but this was REALLY fucked up)... I knew he was probably in bad shape, then a little while later I actually talked to someone from the next town over who was in school with him for a little bit after he quit my high school. I was told he would just snap and go off, start climbing book cases in the classrooms and shit, screaming like a maniac...

It seems to me like HPPD is sort of like a mini-psychosis though, caused by hallucinogens (maybe that's why they call it hallucinogen post-perceptual disorder). It can get bad enough to interfere with your life, as noted in blackdog's post, but I'd say the combination of living in a fucked up environment, hallucinogens, and other drugs is more likely to lead to a psychosis that is more severe. It might start off as HPPD, but it could develop into something worse.

 

HPPD and psychosis should be entirely separate phenomena; people who suffer from lingering tracers aren't necessarily raging maniacs.

 

I am not a psychology major but I have heard from one that the term "psychosis" is often broadened to describe a wide range of mental illnesses.

 

Tim Leary and John Lilly consider this state to be a desired one. A state of "Evolution." I don't know if I agree, and I haven't ever experienced it myself, but it is just an opinion, from some people who did a lot of LSD research.

 

Psychosis is a very general term. HPPD is not; it's a specific illness listed in the DSM. Tracers are one symptom of HPPD, and to be diagnosed with HPPD (like all other illnesses in the DSM) you need a certain number of symptoms, and usually for a certain amount of time.

As for Tim Leary and John Lilly... just take a look at what they wrote later on in their "evolved states" lol... I'd say Lilly was a little worse than Leary though. I could see how having slight tracers and fun colors flying around would be fun, but these guys were way past that, I would never wanna be that way.

 

If you look at it from a shamanic or animistic point of view, HPPD may be a blessing rather than a curse... Having a foot in our physical reality and your own spiritual world or underlying consciousness. Personally I would much prefer having a firm grasp in two realities rather than be worried about whether or not I can drive my escalade without seeing trails.

 

rofl... right.. Not being able to function in reality and complete normal objectives in your life sounds like fun pal.

 

yesturday was christmas and I just learned of hppd yesturday as ive been asking myself for the past couple of months what the hell is going on and why am i here and that question bothers me because of constantly doing the same shit over and over again for the last 18 years. but only noticing it recently. Asking myself questions of why im here and what the fuk am I doing?? Im constantly in a situation I dont want to be in, know how to avoid it, but cant turn away. Situation is this, I had a "bad trip" in 93 I was 17 and was a well seasoned tripper by that time or at least before the night. I lost my shit taking 4 hits of blotter called celtic cross. I was ill stimulated before I took the cid seamingly causing the intensity of my insanity. well it took maybe 2 minutes to kick into high gear more intense in any manner of any psychodelic experience ive ever had to where myself was percieved and seen as a demon when looking in the mirror everything else was projected through my eyes and was physically there. ( ive allways had my memories and thoughts in the shape of an old movie screen , rectangular) a ball of light floated through the bathroom wall that i thought I just had entered to vomit from the feverish feelings, and went around the room and hit me in the face, it fuckin touched me not allowed to do that! and I started balling and yelling for help cause I knew I had lost it and was going to have permanant side effects from it. after it traveled through the next wall and when it did I could see everyone in our fry party that was in the room. I saw everything plain as day through the wall. Then I down at the toilet, looked like 18 different toilet bowls, then in the mirror where i saw the demon that was in my place, then it was constant rrrrrrrrr's and ssssssss's then tttt's in rows and rows being typed fast as hell and I could hear the typwriter and that was all I could hear.
Everything that I saw in my head came out wrapped around me and I couldnt stop it get rid of it make it change it was FULL BORE and as people rushed in to help me I couldnt really see them or make them out clearly what I was visioning was in front of them or covering them? I felt sick, hot, and the body high which is normally great felt like needles in my blood every nerve screamed in pain pulsing pain. As images rushed through my head they portraid themselves just as fast and It was horrible, I was insane incappable of normal thought ;normal feelings, I KNEW what they were and couldn't be a part of it, its kinda hard to explain But I knew I was fucked, big time. My best friend was trying to talk to me, which I couldnt speak clearly at all no motor skills at all. As he talked I could hear him but what I was seeing was a grey half man half cat bust statue? with hella bright light inverted triangles (hourglasses) in rows running all 3 deminsions for sure across his face. There was so much uncontrollable happening that I dont think I remember all the detail clearly I remember it fading in and out from my fry partners talking to me telling me its ok and as it faded the feeling, the visuals would lessen and I could see my friends finally, Then it would just rush right back, and send lightning bolts into my head and body repeatedly over and over pulsing pounding, Oh the pounding was sound crushing my body and insides like loud words that I didnt fully understand. I cant describe how this felt thouroughly enough it was simply horrible unbareable. I just cried and cried. That part lasted for over 13 hours. When I was in the bathroom thinking only a few minutes? apparently I went inside to puke and must have blacked out? I was in there for 3 hours when I first have memory, with the ball of light. Everybody thought I had left the party, tilll I wailed my horrible scream. I could not function no control. when it finally ended I just laid on the floor holding my head because it hurt like it gave birth to an elephant, shaking kinda in shock, and my eyes looked "bloody" I was just thank full it was over. Next morning my head was hurting still and filled like heavy or full of water, I was off balance weak, and scared. Now I had to face my mom and tell her I fucked myself up bad. So I did and had her pray for me that please dont let what ever comes be the same as what had just happend. That very next night I was sleeping, head felt screwy all day. I was dreaming and in my dream I started having a" flash back" well i woke up and it was full bore again just like it was before and I just started crying, scared to death i said God please make it stop! and I shit you not! it DID! I felt better than I ever did "perfect" then it slowly creeped back intensity levels till I started to get overwhelmed and it stopped right at that peak. and I heard "Im sorry my son youve done this to yourself" and its been the same since. Visuals and all. Dont get me wrong Ive never been a "pussy" and stopped taking lsd or any other substance for that manner. Later I ate 72 hits on my third night in one time, 32 hits of purple gel tabs another. Gallons of liquid. it was endless and everywhere I still fear my "bad trip" everytime but realizing now never stopped me. (point). To me these amounts are astronimical, and very stupid, dangerous absolutly, PRO'S ONLY! Im not exagerating numbers. Im 35 today and like I said its Christmas day I just allmost killed a couple in a tan Hyundai today. Plowing into them with my brand new truck, totalling it as well. Im writting this so you a reader may know, possibly help? I havn't eatin any acid or hallucinagin in maybe 2 years now. but i have substance abuse? problems or something? Like I said before a couple of months ago I realized im repeating the question "what in the fuck am I doing here?" and recollecting memories of my life, I've been repeating everything over and over a huge circle of shit of self abuse drug wise dangerous and fatal amounts of whatever drug is there, no fear,? no boundaries Not good.. Been this way since highschool, I can not make proper dicisions I seem to know what is right or wrong but cant for the life of me do the right thing. My life has been very dificult homeless, divorced, lost my 3 wonderfull kids, work is allways hard to keep or maintain. I thought it was just me and maybe I was just a piece of shit? Even though thats not what I want. Good one day depressed the next? round and round same ol thing. My visuals lately have been getting more intense and I still endulge in stupid shit. People say Im just not allways there kinda floaty, lost in my own head. Theyve noticed for years like im out of control or not in control. I am and Im seeing it now. My constant "tripping" is why I hit that car It was like I wasnt even in my truck till I hit the car, then it was all horrible. My visuals are the same today I have trails like im on 10 hits right now everything moves, when I did take more acid I basically just get the body high, visions the same. Ive just moved on and dealt with it, for ever it seems I was just copeing with it and working with it. But I fear Im not. Its starting to kick my ass and getting more over apparent then our "reality" and I cant stop it. Reading since yesturday on hppd it says the inihibitor mechanisms in our brain are affected I think thats one of my problems. I do stupid shit all the time allways no matter where I go allways, IM just now reallizing it. But I definatly have all the other symptoms, they'll be here till I die, I know it. Im looking for help now need a doc. They say theres pills that can help, I hope something can for safeties sake.. and Im wondering if im even safe to drive now? disability? am I insane? Help