I can prove the existance of God. Right now.

Everything I say is completely logical. I don't go in for make-believe or superstition. Also, I am not getting pissy with anyone or resorting to calling their ideas 'ridiculous'.

I do take your point about the Atheism forum though. I thought that 'Atheism' and 'Agnosticism' were up for debate here but it seems I misinterpreted the name of this forum. Maybe I should go somewhere more open-minded.

 

maybe it's the devil in me talkin. quick, start chanting the power of christ compels you. throw ur bible at me. cast the evil demons from me. aghhhhhhhhhh! my head's spinning!!!!!!!!

 

I wouldn't claim to channel the power of Christ or throw a bible at you. I'm not religious

 

yeeeeeeeah. and i'm not a human.

 

what religion am I then?

 

who cares! u believe in the existance of a man made fantasy. i'm sure my sarcasm eludes u as with the comment i made about the devil in me.
i don't care which religion u subscribe to or not. u live in la-la land and i'd like to be a god too! worship me dammit. i'll make u into a servant too. all hail me! baruch almighty disarray...YAY!!!

 

what i meant was if you are going to call infinity god, why even bother, just call it infinity. basically, if god is everything, then the distinguishing characteristics of god disappear, and so does any use for god.
and the idea of an all-knowing god is a logical leap, as is the idea of an infinite consciousness. in fact they're pretty illogical (the cells in my toes are attached to nerves that run to the cells in my brain, but i'm not attached ((physically, maybe spirtitually, which i don't believe in)) to anybody else in the same manner.)

 

I guess that's why there's that whole term, COSMOS.

 

If there is no God, where did our cosmos come from?


Say it, you don't know.

 

I don’t know where the universe got it’s energy from and I don’t pretend to know the answers. But I sure as shit know who does not have the answers!!! Religious LIES and FAIRY TALES answer nothing!!! Not only do they answer nothing but they sit on their morally flawed high horses and trample all over everyone else because they are blinded by their false ignorant answers.

 

Let's admit it. Nobody "knows"for sure. We're all just guessing, although it can be an educated guess. The problem is too big for us, like a dog trying to explain why its master goes to work in the morning. Modern physics is hard for even the physicists to understand. Logically, when the experts disagree, laymen should suspend judgment--but I admit that's pretty boring. It seems to me most of the arguments for God based on "where did the cosmos come from?" are warmed-over variations on the argument from design, left over from the Middle Ages and given some new twists by the Intelligent Design and "finely tuned universe" schools. And by now the counter- arguments are pretty much standard too: who designed God? the "god of gaps", the Blind Watchmaker, parallel universes, and So What? I don't think logic, evidence and science alone can settle these questions. We have to make choices in the face of uncertainty. That's what makes life interesting.

 

before the big bang, there was no time, so it didn't 'come' from anywhere cause verbs lose meaning in four dimensions...
It just was, and the reason it was the way it was, was that if it were any other way, we'd be different creatures wondering why it was the way it was.

or maybe Horus mastaurbated the whole of existence.
just as likely (probably more likely in fact) than some all-powerful being creating everything.

 

As stated before, everything comes from something. Something can't come from nothing, and nothing can't come from nothing.

 

So where did God come from?

 

nope, tiny tiny particles are constantly being created and destroyed all around you. them and their anti-matter pairs pop into and out of existence pretty much everywhere.
the idea that something can't come from nothing is just human prejudice.

what came before time?
logically nothing, cause if it was before time than it was a part of time. in order for something to appear to happen after something else you need time.
which they didn't have before the big bang.

sooo... minus 2 points.

 

Where did our cosmos come from...
From the cosmos factory, duh?
I mean c'mon man, why do you think we have smaller parities of that now, it's all the factory man.


Anyways, the cosmos is a thing that simply is, and we grow apart from it, grow in it's turning, and become consumed in it's contracting.
I think the better plan here, is for you to live a healthy and fulfilled life, educating yourself, for the sake of progressing intellect, and to be able to maintain your life without the wreckless hustle and bustle of psyche delving, without the emergency stop button so you CAN go DO SOMETHING more gratifying to your senses and being, since your here anyways.
This way, you can tackle more, as opposed to less. And I'd be happy to see your progress, as we progress to inspire others to progress.
Done right, god will be happy anyways, as is a commandment.
The best terminological foray I've had on the god subject was G.O.D.
Good, Orderly, Direction.
That should help.

By the way, it was a broken down carpenter, who just got out of seven years for assault, who delivered that message to me...
I'm no longer on the streets. I'm living better and passing along the message.
No matter what fool tries to shoot me down.
Peace.

 

Will you just recognise that there is a problem with the understanding of religious language. 'God' is just a metaphor for the universe.


Note: Metaphor -

Noun 1. metaphor - a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity (eg. 'this car is a beast')


frozen metaphor - a metaphor that has occurred so often that it has become a new meaning of the expression (e.g., `he is a snake' may once have been a metaphor but after years of use it has died and become a new sense of the word `snake')


Not to be confused with 'Simile'

Noun 1. simile - A figure of speech in which two essentially unlike things are compared, often in a phrase introduced by like or as, as in "How like the winter hath my absence been" or "So are you to my thoughts as food to life" (Shakespeare).


'God is my father' is a metaphor.

'God is like my father' is a simile.

Religious language uses metaphors. 'God is my father' doesn't mean that God is a man, or that 'he' physically had sex with my mother or anything like that. It just means that God posesses the attributes of fatherhood, ie. God is that from which I was created, ie. the universe.



I don't say God is like the universe, ie. simile, I say God is the universe ie. metaphor, because they are the same thing. I use the word God instead of 'the universe', because 'God' acknowledges a connectedness, or 'consciousness' whereas, 'The universe' does not (at least, not in the common usage of the term). 'Consciousness' just means connectedness. ie. If you are connected to something, you have knowledge of it, or a 'consciousness' of it.


The God metaphor is useful because describing the universe as a personality, with consciousness, rather than just a collection of innanimate and animate objects tells us that the universe works as one entity where everything is connected. It is a system of cause and effect where every action and thought has a knock-on effect which cascades through everything else in time and space. If we don't understand that everything is connected we are on a path to self-destruction; Social problems, crime, wars, global warming etc. This reality is represented by metaphors of Hell and the like, in popular religious thought. but if we believe and act as we are one and treat others and the environment as we would want to be treated, with love and compassion, then we would live in harmony, wealth would be shared, caring communities would return. This state is the paradise which is represented by metaphors of heaven, the kingdom of God etc..

'What is the use of god'? you say. The God metaphor is important because it tells us that the universe is an all-knowing consciousness. Don't yell 'but that's just bullshit!' It's just another metaphor. What this means is that all consciousness is connected in that it too is subject to the law of cause and effect. eg. some people might think that if you have bad thoughts, it doesn't matter unless you act on them. No harm is done, so that's alright? Even though there might be no immediate direct action from that thought it stays in you and influences all of your judgement even though you may not be conscious of it. This will affect others too, even though they may not be aware of it. Thoughts and intentions are like seeds which are buried, whether conscious or not, they still grow and have repercussions and influence. This is what it means when religious people say that God knows all your thoughts, even if you keep them secret or even ones that you are not aware of because they are still out there having an effect in the world.

Does anyone remember the episode of Star Trek The Next Generation called 'Darmok'? where the enterprise discovers a planet whose inhabitants speak only in metaphors? At first, Picard can't understand them and vice versa. They misunderstand each other and this causes frustration and hostilities. Picard only works out what the aliens are saying by carefully analysing the metaphors they are using and the history of the alien planet until eventually, he is able to communicate and everyone lives happily ever after. It's the same with religious language. It's just different words to describe the same thing, but with more meaning.

If we talk about other people or the environment with secular (non-religious) terminology, we are not acknowledging that we are connected to them, or it. When we're not conscious of this connection we tend to try to compete with a winners and losers type mentality, rather than co-operate. If we say to a stranger, 'You are my brother because we are both children of God', it may not be literally true, but it is metaphorically true. This acknowledgement of inter-dependence promotes harmonious living where there are only winners and no losers.

In recent years, secular language has found more ways of expressing the understanding that everything in the universe is interconnected. One example is the popularisation of Chaos Theory in the 80's eg. the idea that when a butterfly flaps it's wings on one side of the planet, it can be part of a cause and effect chain that ends up making a hurricane on the other side of the world. Theories about the greenhouse effect and global warming also indicate that the idea of an inter-connected universal system is taking hold in our common consciousness. Maybe the religious metaphors are being superceded by modern straight-talk to describe the relationship we have with the world around us. This is only because we have now been able to explore our entire planet and are nor exploring beyond into space. Just remember, 500 years ago, we didn't even know that the world was round. Even so, religious language has been used to give us insight into the true nature of our relationship with the universe since the dawn of time. It is still important that we respect and understand religious language because humanity is divided and on the brink of self destruction. This understanding is crucial for us to help heal the damage done by thousands of years of ignorance and mistrust.

Is there anything illogical about any of that? Have I told any lies or fairy tales?

 

Pretty much a pile of double talking BS, I think.

So tell me something, How many butterflies flapping would you say God needed to manifest to save the dinosaurs from meteorite extinction?

Lots of earthy interactions occurred with dinosaurs for 60 million years. Did any of those interactions have any impact on their final outcome, in their point of view? No, after millions of years an UNCONSCIOUS ROCK sealed their fate.

Random events, cause and effect, natural selection… we are all linked together in these but there is not great consciousness in effect or anything even somewhat like consciousness and so such a metaphor to even suggest a greater consciousness is idiotic and misleading.

 

I wondered when someone was going to point out that the sum total of energy/mass is zero.

 

I pick the side with the better reward. Believe in God, and live His way, have eternal life after death.
Don't believe in God, live life with worldly purpose, and die..

I pick God's way. If I'm wrong, I'm gonna die anyway, and I have a good life. Don't need to go to church, don't need to throw the bible at anyone, I just know that I have my place in the afterlife, and that gives me peace and purpose in this life.
And I've had many wonderful, unexplainable experiences, that I don't think I would have if I were just living for myself, and not seeking God.