I like soldiers.

No, really, I like the vast majority of the soldiers serving in Iraq. Many of them are there against there will, and many have done great acts of kindness. They're going through a whole lot of shit, and the vast majority have acted well. There are, of course, bad eggs in every batch, but I think they are overemphasized both on this board and in the media. I'd be much happier to see more attention payed to the "good" ones. Don't get me wrong, I don't support the war, nor do I support violence. But the soldiers that are over are, for the most part, doing a remarkably good job of acting responsibly.


Flame away.

 

"Many of them are there against there will"

No, they are not.
If they TRULY did not want to go, they would not have to. Quitting the armed forces IS an option, and it is a choice many do make. Sure, there are some who don't really feel like being there - but if they truly felt strongly about it, they wouldn't be there.

 

when first read title of thread .....i like soldiers i thought it was a sexuall thing " .....was hoping to continue havin a dicussion with you on your post "but after reading that last sentence " i dont think i will bother ..... really acting responsibly slaughtering babies "woman and whole innocent families out "yeah right .

 

War in Iraq is for a reason, they cant build a normal society and Country- their problem they suck too bad , same as fallign apart russia, But Plus they support terrorism and attack kurds as in first perisan gulf war... for that They are gettinf fucked , adn its not our fault that they are so dumb, we use our chance now we suck their juices that they couldnt handle...

 

If you consider the number of soldiers over there, i think you'll find that the incident rate is remakably low.

I'm not sure that you could do anybetter in that same situation.


To the poster above paul, Jail isn't an option to most people who want to have a career. Professional life must be out of your imagination.

 

No one is there against their will. If you join the Military and, somehow think that you have no chance of being sent off to war, you have some logic processing issues.

EVERY person who joins a totally volunteer Army should know that war is always a possiblity. Ask any 3 year old what an "Army Guy" does. He'll tell you "He goes to war and kills people." If the people joining the army have less insight than a 3 year old, well, it makes sense why this the USA is in so much trouble.

 

If they were acting 'responsibly', they wouldn't have participated in an unjust invasion of another country to begin with. I already had a headache-when I saw the title of this thread it just got worse.

 

Well it is primarily the government's fault for sending them there in the first place-obviously that's true. But the soldiers also have their role to play in the whole thing. It was an unjust invasion, and there was no draft like in Vietnam-people that join the military today know that they're probably going to be sent across the world engaging in some unjust war of adventure, rather than really defending their own country. The sad thing is that a lot of people that join the military today are doing it to get out of poverty. One thing that bugs me is that, during Vietnam, a lot of soldiers, even though they were fighting Communism, were really bothered morally by the fact that they had to go there and participate in so much killing. I don't really see that much among the soldiers in Iraq. I lay the responsilbilty for the war squarely at the feet of Bush and his cronies, whose shoes I wouldn't want to be in on Judgement Day. Also, I serve my country by standing up for what's right and trying to mobilize people to do the same, even if it's not popular-and voting, what little good that does.

 

so soldiers are just mindless robots without an opinion?

 

What if the superior is wrong? Should the soldiers still follow like sheep?

 

A world without morals is a world that's not worth living in-and that's the BEGINNING of the story. Millions of people blindly followed Hitler-'well, they were just following orders'-nobody should have ever followed those kinds of orders. Blindly following orders has almost wrecked the whole planet more than once.

 

Wouldn't be amazing if soliders were taught to question orders then just follow orders?

 

I disagree, it will make war harder to make and force politicians seek better alternatives than war. Superiors will always think twice before thinking about war because they know the soldiers who have to fight them will question them but like it is now the superiors do whatever they like.

 

The army does not make you big, it makes you a tool.

 

I don't see how that is comparable.

A disciplined soldier can consist of the ability to think, question, and follow orders.

and yours aren't?

 

Whether it is realistic or not it is due to a person perception of the world.

 

Of course technically the invasion wasn't 'unjust'

Saddam had been in breach of various U.N disarmament resolutions since 1991. He
violated the terms of the weapons inspection program and also had missles with a range of 180 km. This exceeded the 150 km limit placed on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War.

Of course. I understand that the Inteligence made a link between Saddam and Al Qaida - and also beefed up the possible WMD's that Saddam had.

While I had rather we hadn't gone to war on flawed intellegence - the fact remains we have removed Saddam, and I think that end justifies the war.

I think it is easy to lose sight of what a bastard Saddam was. The UN estimates he killed anywhere from a quarter, to half a million of his own people since he came to power.

Yes we have had the trouble of Abu Ghraib and other abuse by Allied forces.
However this isn't anywhere near the scale of what Saddam did. As someone as already said above - if you look at the number of military personel in Iraq, and the number of incidents - it is remarkably low.

Sometimes I feel that people are so anti-military that they loose sight of the facts.
Blame Saddam - blame the Ba'ath Party.

Would you really feel alot better if it were Saddam - a dictator - who would could not be removed from office was still killing his own people? Is that the responsible thing to do?

 

I understand the way it works, and that way needs to change. I believe soldiers are more capable than just saying yes sir.

If I would to form an army, it would be a thinking army. Is their evidence that thinking armies are less efficient than sheep armies?

 

I think the vast majority of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are honorable people doing a great job.

 

blame the goverment for what ?.now i have a few questions for you insane = 1 - how have you served your country today ? let me guess probally got outta yer pit around midday "mummy made yer breakfast and yer probally did"nt even thank her " then sat on yer dumb arse most of the day spouting racist bullshit " how great george bush is and fuck everyone else (think yer get the picture ) if i am wrong fuckin sue me ....question 2 - when are you enlistin insanejester ?.