i only trust hippies to help me answer this

friends-

maybe this state of mind is the result of far too many pyschedelics at far too young of an age, but lately i've been questioning everything around me fairly often. and i as i sit here, procrastinating writing a paper about the mood of hamlet in acts i through iii, i had to urge to putforth my thoughts and questions to those i trust would be most apt to answer them, those who do not judge or criticize and those who feel what i'm saying...man. i ask the "hippies", the most knowledgable of peoples. so here are my thoughts (pardon the disorganization and lack of sense making):

maturity finds happiness by self disiplining and "looking ahead", generally not living in the moment. it believes happiness will come over time if it abides by certain rules and endears certain sufferieng. maturity believes this to be a much more fulfilling and saisfying happiness than that of instant gradification.

immaturity seeks immidiate happiness through doing whatever means possible. it believes enjoyment is in the moment. immaturity will skip their finals to rip a four foot bong with its best friends and then go camping under the stars. it will suffer the consequences, yes, but immaturity usually deems its actions worthwhile.

so who is right? both involve suffering and happines, just in different orders and in different manners. which is life meant to be filled with? which is real "happiness"?


i'm sorry if this a silly question : P, please tell me what you think!

love, crimsonbegonias.

 

both are right. The trick is that life is not a one path journey. Certain times in your life will require you to pick either one or the other. Neither is right, neither is wrong. The question is, which works for you right now, at this instant? That's the one that's true happiness for you. Most importantly, once the decision is made, don't bother looking back and regretting it. Learning from it... perhaps, but not regretting.

 

well said my friend, well said.
it's just, i dunno, i'm at that age where i'm prone to make big mess ups that will most likely impact my future greatly, and i'm wondering if it's all worth it...like go to college and become a journalists, or go live in an ecovilliage in the middle of canada. i just don't know, y'know?
thank you though, very much.

 

The mess up potential is an illusion. It only seems that way now because that's your current big decision. Either of those choices will have similiar moments associated with them. You can't choose wrong.

 

yeah, i guess you're right...hey thank you man, really haha.

 

you could look at all different sorts've philosophies and get all sorts've answers
and according to the adherent ideals of existentialism - none of them are right or wrong, including existentialism

I think you should focus less on justification or guidance through a set up general ideology, and think more personally, specifically, and intimately, on the matter

what do you feel is truly right for you?

 

as far as college goes, i feel like it is it worth it in itself for the advancement of your own knowledge.

 

There is no right or wrong... just practice yourself to understand all of what's going on inside you, how do you react to different situation, etc. In time, a decision will come that you will not have regret.

I don't know what's happiness, but I do know that it is not one thing, it's more like a way of life. And I don't think that this way of life depends on wich lifestyle you lead (job, family, friends, etc.). I think it depends of the way you take your life, your perception of it... are we trying to understand it to better choose it? I hope I'm making sense...

I'm sure of one thing, however, this is definately not a silly question. It's actually one of the most important questions...

Maybe happiness is not an answer. Maybe happiness is a question.

 

thank you, really. i dunno, around 2 weeks ago i had a really amazing acid trip and i think i've sorta answered all these questions about life and happiness and whatnot. i'm happy, i really am and i know i'll always have that no matter what path i take. i have my family, friends and i love what i do- what more could i ask for? =)

 

yea!

 

Just curious, why do you come to the existentialist forum to direct a question strictly for hippies?


Since I'm not a hippie, I'll exercise restraint and not offer my opinion.

 

Not quite sure about the whole "only trusting hippies" thing. I suppose I'm enough of a hippie to offer my response (actually I'm told I'm a huge hippie, I just don't accept stereotypes). Perhaps this is because I don't believe in choices or decisions. Technically speaking everything you do is a decision or choice. To me however, it's just free will.

Now, you have provided two opposing perspectives on life. Both, came off as incredibly negative perspectives. To me, it sounded like you described each perspective with the other in mind. For example, if you were to live for happiness in your future, your happiness now would suffer and vise versa. If your gonna make a choice between those two options, the other perspective shouldn't even exist. There would be no such thing as happiness right now (at any point) if you were working for happiness in the future and no such thing as happiness in the future if you were living for happiness right now. The future is right now when you get there.

It appears, that collectively, as a world society, that we have "chosen" to have the first perspective you described so that if we were to live for happiness today, it would have tremendously negative results (perhaps a violent and aggressive anarchy). I'd hate to make any assumptions about what perspectives you have but as a fellow teenaged psychedelic user I'd imagine you might get frustrated that you are intertwined in a culture where we are brought up to believe that our (fake notion) of time right now should be dedicated to making something of our future. It seems like making something of ourselves can only be making something of our future. This shouldn't make sense to any rationally thinking human.

I simply don't believe in time. I've felt and perceived the abolishment of time, mostly on mushrooms. So I do get very frustrated with what I am made to live in. But simply, I have actually made the choice to continue life as I've "known" it. With the right people surrounding you I believe it's been possible for me to continue my education while experiencing life directly now. Knowledgeless understanding is far more important to me than knowledge. But knowledge is almost a very enjoyable hobby for me. I intent on going to college and learning a lot in a field I have enormous interest in.

One important thing to remember is that you are the master of your destiny. So you better keep dreaming, because what you focus your living on right now can determine the rest of your life in a place I've felt is actually eternity. I'm personally looking forward to the "end of time" people have been scared of.

William Blake - "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thru' narrow chinks of his cavern."

With meditation on the right now I think we can clean those doors of perception and we can feel this eternity and make whatever the hell we want with it.

I hope you like my response. It's sort of a messy organization of a lot of my own daily "religion."

Also, CrimeThink Inc. has a lot to say about your question.

Peace & Prosperity

 

well i think both assumptions are wrong. maturity does involve self dicipline, but NOT as an end in and of itself. rather it is a recognitions that while no one is in control, all of us, added up togather, create the incentives we are all moved by.

and that includes those who make the decisions that create the policies that create the conditions that we experience.

the only things that gratify immediately are personal computers and micro-wave ovens, and even those, bennifit from learning more about how to use them.

i think it's good not to have to worry about things. not to HAVE to. but in order for that to make sense, we need to create for ourselves, for ALL of us, a world in which we wouldn't have to.

we CAN do that, but most people right now don't seem to want to, or seem to think its more important to look for happiness where they'd know damd well if they thought about it for two seconds they weren't going to find it, nor nearly as much as the effort they put into persuing it in that manor, even if they do find some small token of it there.

creating and exploring, and i'm not talking about procreating either, gratify because we are built that way. exploring because all life forms are, and creating because that's what makes us sentient, or super sentient, or simply resaults in our surrounding ourselves by more of our own artifactst then any other species of creature on our planet.

so creating and exploring are what gratify the kind of world we all have to live in is what is important. forget about so called maturity vs so called instant gratification, both, in the sense the question was origeonally asked, are pretty much myths.

maturity is something we CAN aquire, not by streight jacketting our hearts and minds, but by asking ourselves what kind of a world we're creating. not on the basis of some arbitrary belief or set of them, but on the basis in combination of both how things actually work, and what kind of world we actually DO want to live in.

choosing between two straw dogs, has absolutely nothing to do with what happiness is.

=^^=
.../\...

 

The end of doing earthly things comes when you are in the earth LOL.

 

and even that is a big fuckin maybe.

 

Here's a short animation you may enjoy. I think it is relevant to your topic. Animated by the "south park" guys, to an audio of Allan Watts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4&feature=related

 

You must decide who is "wrong" or "right". Do what makes you happy. As vague as that may sound.

But it's good that you question everythng. Taht is a natural human inclination. Let in run wild. Don't try to bridle yourself because society says you should.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is that you don't need to make it the 2 paths of maturuty or immaturity. Unless you want to. But nothing in life is cut and dry. NOTHING. Even if it may seem that way. Personally, I keep the mantra of Quintus Horracius Flaccus (Horace), Carpe Diem. I believe in seizing the moment because we don't know how long it will last.

If life has a "meaning" , it's probably not sitting in a cubicle for 30 years, hust to retire when you're dick doesn't work anymore and you can't even enjoy retirement becasue your prostate is swollen.

But I'm just one of roughly 6.7 billion people floating on a rock in space, trying to make my own purpose and meaning.

 

No no no no... you should never trust hippies... with ANYTHING! Their brains are clouded with recreational drugs, and they steal your stuff because they're poor and need more recreational drugs.

 

"maturity" and "immaturity" have nothing to do with happiness, and everything to do with responsibility. One can be responsible and happy, and one can be irresponsible and happy. totally exclusive of each other.

 

The way you present this question is a little puzzling. There are several possible issues people seem to be responing to. First, does it make sense to trust only hippies? Second, can hippies and non-hippies be regarded as surrogates for fun and "maturity", respectively. Third, the issue that seems to me to be the core one: how to resolve the dilemma between gratification now and deferred gratification.

Re the first issue, whether to trust hippies and only hippies, you're the best judge of whom you trust. I can only offer my opinion that the distinction between "hippie" and non-hippie can be nebulous and superficial. What do you mean by hippie? (A) The media stereotype of somebody with long hair, who bathes infrequently, smokes pot, uses psychedelics, avoids work, and is into "sex, drugs and rock'n roll"? (B) Somebody who respects the environment, rejects materialism and the consumer culture, and is into "Peace, love and understanding"? (C) All of the above? (D) Some of the above? I consider myself a hippie only in the sense of (B). Do you trust me?

Re the second issue-- do "hippies" and "non-hippies" stand for immediate and deferred gratification, respectively?--reality is more complex than that. These categories are what sociologists call "ideal types". In the real world, people seldom fit into neat categories, and reality is seldom neatly divided into clear dichotomies of "one or the other', "either-or". What we usually get are individuals who fall somewhere along a continuum, mixing "hippie" and "non-hippie" characteristics.

This brings us to the third issue, which I sense is the important one for you: whether to opt for enjoyment of the present or preparation for the future. This is a classic example of what logicians call a "dilemma": a choice between two alternatives, neither of which is practically acceptable. Have you read Robert Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? He gets into this and offers five different possible solutions, using a bullfighting metaphor to avoid being gored by the "horns of the dilemma":
(1) seize one horn and reject the other (you know that either option you pick, you're going to win something and lose something); (2) seize both horns & reject themboth (or go for the "third horn "); it doesn't have to be "either-or", you can work hard and party hardy; (3) "throw sand in the bull's eyes" (ask yourself where you got the idea that these are the only options in life; for example, some folks might say you may be morbidly preoccupied with your own personal happiness, to the point that it's making you anxious and taking the joy out of your life; why don't you work in a soup kitchen helping the homeless and at least giving meaning to somebody else's life?; (4) "sing the bull to sleep": Admit that the solution is beyond your own competence and ask others for help. (You've done that; congratulations! Did it help?) (5) Refuse to enter the bullfighting arena, by realizing at the outset that the problem is unsolvable.

We have a great advantage in being young, with plenty of time to test out different approaches. Just be careful not to close out options by going whole hog (or bull) in one direction or the other, because neither extreme can really pay off in the long run.