I want Proof!

Much is said about america's "Christian" roots, with the natural implication being that America was founded with a specific religious agenda. I am as much a scientest as I am a spiritualist, and being thus I would love to see some authentic documents proving this claim. I'm not trying to be anti-Christian, but I really want to study the sources of fundamentalist claims. In the end, most Christians I have met have not been extremists. I'm simply curious to know where these ideas come from.

 

Well, here's what some of the founding fathers had to say about it;


The question before mankind is whether the god of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles.

...this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.

---John Adams, second president of the United States.



Question with boldness even the existence of God, because, if there is one, he must more approve of the hommage of reason than that of blind faith.

Paul was the great Coryphaeus, the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus.

and the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter.

---Thomas Jefferson



As to religion, I hold it to be the indespensible duty of all goverments to protect the conscientous proffessors thereof, and I know of no other business which goverment has to do with it.

For myself I fully and conscientiously believe, that it is the wiil of the Allmighty, that there should be a diversity of religious opinion among us.

I believe in god and no more.

I do not believe the creed proffesed by the jewuish church, by the roman church, by the turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church.

As to the Christian system of faith, it appears to me as a species of atheisim; a sort of religious denial of God.

the adulterous connection of church and state...

---Thomas Paine.

 

On the flipside here's an excerpt from the "Body of Liberties" of the Massachusetts Colony (1641);

94. Capital Laws.
1. If any man after legal conviction shall have or worship any other god, but the lord god, he shall be put to death.

2. If any man or woman be a witch (that is hath consulteh with a familiar spirit) they shall be put to death.

3. If any person shall blaspheme the name god, the father, Sonne or Hollie ghost, with direct, express, presumptuois or high handed blasphemie, or shall curs God in the like manner, he shall be put to death.


Each of these laws is followed by a reference to passages in Leviticus, Dueteronomy, Numbers, or Exodus--in other words, the Old Testement.

 

I'm pretty sure most of the big founding fathers, like Washington, Jefferson, Adams, ect. were Deists. So a belief in god, but not as described by the bible.

 

Many of them said so outright (as in the quotes I gave).

When Jefferson wrote and preposed the Virginia statute for Religious Freedom before congress;
*"...an amendment was preposed to include the words 'Jesus christ... the holy author of our religion' ". It was voted down by "a great majority, in proof that they (congress) mean't to comprehend within the mantle of it's protection, the Jew, the gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindu and the infidel of every denomination"
(*from Jefferson's autobiography)

 

Jefferson gave everyone (i am not sure of this) a Bible, but all it was was scriptures taken from the NT gospels about Jesus' ministry, nothing about his death, ressurectio, or second coming (man I wish I had that Stealing Jesus book again, it covers this subject in a couple chapters)

 

EDIT: the thing i am not sure of is who specifically he gave them to...congress, senate, I am unsure

 

The Jefferson Bible. Ha ha... gotta love ol' Tom.

 

Alot of fundies want to belive America was founded on Christian faith, it wasn't. It was simply stumbled on and the people sick of the Church of England used it as refuge!...Besides America was founded by Indians and last time I checked they didn't belive in Jesus back then ;-p

 

You DO know something, don't ya?

 

Heeeeey! Reading your History text book out of bordom pays off!

 

Indeed.

I am truly a big nerd when it comes to that.

 

I spent my last 2$ on a libary card...haha!

 

*salute*

 

Got two books on Martin Luther, and a book called "great philosphers" by Karl Jaspers. has socrates buddha confucius jesus plato augustine and kant

 

Damn, we need to hang out.

You like Greek wine or margaritas?

 

I like wine, never tried Greek wine. And last time I had margaritas they were frozen and I got a brain freeze!

 

We stole, er, were given this land by God with the mission of saving the souls of those nice people who lived here before us. Didn't you know? And it mentions "God" several times in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution so He has to be a part of our nation, our lives, our government, right?

Riiiiiight....

 

3 cheers for the Monroe Doctrine and Manifest Destiny. Otherwise some hairsplitters might say that breaking treaties, buying land from people it doesn't belong to so you can steal it from the people it does belong to, starving/slaughtering women and children, purposely infecting whole tribes of people who aren't your enemy with smallpox and diptheria, was something less than the will of God.

Yeah, and christians will try to use this as "proof" that america was founded on christianity (because we all know Christians have a copyright on the whole "God" idea, right?)

The truth is you could actually make a better case for the hypothesis that the most influential of the founding fathers were something more akin to modern day pagans;

check out the original draft of the Declaration of Independance;

"...the equal and independant station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them..."
--Thomas Paine

Note that the "Laws of Nature" is given precedence and "Nature" itself is capitalised wherever "God" is.

or this,

"The question before us is whether the God of nature shall govern the world by His own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitoius miracles"
---John Adams


Jefferson and Franklin have nothing but praise for the doctrine of Jesus himself but as a code of ethics, not as a religion (at least, not as the religion that claimed to be following him). They're very careful to be clear on that.

Wherever Christianity itself (as a religion) is mentioned it's given a pretty obvious thumbs down.

 

Check this mob out ~
http://www.natreformassn.org/statesman/99/colfound.html
Stanza 2 ~
Purpose for Colonizing America
There were a variety of reasons for why the early colonists came to America, but one that stands out was their desire to advance the kingdom of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ.......................................................................
+ plenty more there