infinity

do you believe everything has a beginning and end, or do you think certain things never really end, and just change form?

 

I don't know. I don't think anyone understand the concept of infinity. Or of zero. We use them but don't understand them, which might cause problems. How can we understand what "nothingness" is? How can we concieve of a thing with no limits, when things are defined by their limits? Our world is a world of discrete things, which have a size...but not zero size or infinite size. Empty space is seen as the space between two things, and isn't really SEEN at all. (besides, empty space isn't really empty, there's air particles there).

I tend to opt towards an infinite universe, going back and forth between existence and non esistance in a timeless eternity. The idea makes little sense to me, but I'm working on that ;-)

 

I think nothing really has a beginning or an end.

It all just changes form.

We require the concept of a beginning and an end in order to define something.
We have to define it to discuss it and examine it. But where one thing ends and another begins is mostly arbitrary.

Conservation of mass. Conservation of energy. Simple.

 

The only thing with a beginning and an end is life. However, I do not believe that infinity can be comprehended as such (as a palpable thing, rather than a concept), for our world is built on boundaries.

 

PS... TrippinBTM, it is hard to think about things like infinity and zero and it took a long time for us to define them mathmatically. The world we experience does appear to have boundaries and finite shapes which is usefull to hunt for food, run from predators and seek shelter. At the atomic level, however, the lines between things blur. Go below that level and the lines aren't even visible. Everything came from something, so something has always been there.

 

Does life actually end? Did it actually begin? Was your moms eggs cell alive? Your fathers sperm? They didn't die along the way... your life is actually just an extension of theirs. As your children's (should you have them) will be an extension of yours. Life itself isn't a thing anyway, it's a state of being. All states of being 'end' because all things eventually transition into something else. Not gone, just rearranged.

 

The end is the beginning, I think.

 

That is a good point, but I was simply talking about the world as we know it. We can have quantum theory and all that, but evolution has not wired us to understand it. Not in a real sense. We can talk about it but what does it really mean to us when we SAY "oh, the universe isn't really a place with things in it, but, at the quantum level, just one thing." We so casually say these things, but I wonder if anyone can really concieve of a nothingness, or an infinity.

I disagree with you, though, because life does end. A look at a corpse will tell you that. But you're right, every living thing on the planet is descended from a single cell in an UNBROKEN chain of life. It is amazing to think that I've been alive for 3.6 billion years. Blows my mind. But still, that life did start sometime. This planet wasn't always here, and even if you opt for the idea that life came from the stars (the earth was seeded by falling comets), the universe wasn't always habitable.

and life is different from other states of being we know of. Life is so complex, it reproduces and changes to fit the environment. It may just be a chemical reaction, but so far as we know, a rather unique and very complex one. Makes one wonder what the real difference between life and non-life is. Where is the line drawn?

 

Think you're right.

If I look upon something I can know its beginning and its end.

Look out into space... Where matter begins, space ends. Where matter ends, space begins. They both have a beginning and an end. It's a vice versa thing.

 

Everything begins and ends by definition, even if it's essential componet remains in existence.

 

Not true. When you are talking about concepts, abstract, non physical things, there may not be a beginning or an end. Take the concept of a spectrum. We try to define people's political views as Right or left wing. But when there is a beginning or an end, you can then rank everyone and say who is more "left-wing" than someone else. It doesn't work like that. Even the colour spectrum, if you excede red or purple on each side, you will still come across "non-colours" such as micro-waves and x-rays, and there are still more on either side that we dont know about. Also many subjective ideas are infinite (my concept of "happy" will not be the same as yours)

 

i think that is what he was referring to, the non-tangible light inside every living being, and the idea that we are actually spirits, and not just bodies.

 

everything ends.

every star will eventual burn out.

entropy.

it's basic physics.

nothing lasts forever, nothing.

name one thing (material) that is infinite or eternal.

nothing is.

 

gazza3001,



"Not true. When you are talking about concepts, abstract, non physical things, there may not be a beginning or an end. Take the concept of a spectrum...Even the colour spectrum, if you excede red or purple on each side, you will still come across "non-colours" such as micro-waves and x-rays, and there are still more on either side that we dont know about. Also many subjective ideas are infinite (my concept of "happy" will not be the same as yours)"

[A spectrum begins at a single quantum of energy. It ends at a number of quanta less than infinite. Relativity states that only so much energy can be concentrated in a quatum of "space-time"- the specrtrum can go so far and that's all..
Also, there exist NO real world examples of an "infinite" ANYTHING.]

"We try to define people's political views as Right or left wing. But when there is a beginning or an end, you can then rank everyone and say who is more "left-wing" than someone else. It doesn't work like that."

[This is mere Editorial commet. Political opinion of other's political opinions.
It's completely self- and homocentric.
Besides- Those people and there opinions and definitions will eventually die (end)]

 

But the star will eventually become a star again. Everything is conserved in physics.

 

And because an atom of your body will eventually will be incorporated into another creature does that mean you will live again?

Something ends when it becomes what it was not.

Perhaps Chaos will be stable this time!

 

Nothing is as it was even an instant earlier, which negates the idea of when something ends.

or as it has been said, "you can never stand in the same river twice".

 

Someone told me once that since every cell in your body dies and is replaced by another at some point, you are literally not the same person you were a decade ago...


An updated copy of your former self...

 

although, correct me if I'm wrong, we never regenerate our brain cells.

 

really?

I didnt know that.

Of course that could change with current trends in biotechnology...

we're off topic though.

the point still stands that everything in the material world ends.