intelligent design (proving god's existance)

has anyone been following the developments in kansas?? its been a heated debate in topeka over whether or not intelligent design should be taught in schools as an alternative to evolution..... all these hardcore christians want it to be taught as a science course..... but how can that really be?? can you really prove god's existance, and that an intelligent being created the earth...?? I dont see any scientific method or facts that would prove this....... the only way they could really prove it would be through the bible....... and wouldnt this be more on the lines of mythology??

I guess a professor at KU was recently attacked for his views on the intelligent design course he was supposed to teach..... he referred to christian fundamentalists as "fundies", and said he was going to teach the intelligent design course as a mythology course, and that should get them all worked up...... well, it did, after some of the wrong people got a hold of his emails...... he was cracked down by the university and the media, so he decided not to teach the course, and KU had to drop the class from the 25 students who enrolled...... now, topeka has been getting really upset with the university of kansas for their handling of the issue.......

and just recently, as of yesterday, the professor was attacked by two hoodlums in a pickup truck..... he was beaten and had to be taken to a hospital for his views and his own faith....... how crazy is that???

 

At least the CHRISTIAN are the ones resorting to violence

 

Poor guy. instead of teaching about an intellegent design behind the universe he decided to teach about the unintellegent design behind religion.

 

the only "evidence" for ID is mental laziness and lack of imagination on the part of its supporters. They feel the world is "too complex" to have occurred naturally.

They also forget that such a "theory" does not answer where this even more complex designer came from...another, higher designer? That line of "explanation" could go on forever.

 

Christian Right Lobbies To Overturn Second Law Of Thermodynamics

TOPEKA, KS--The second law of thermodynamics, a fundamental scientific principle stating that entropy increases over time as organized forms decay into greater states of randomness, has come under fire from conservative Christian groups, who are demanding that the law be repealed.

Above: Conservative Christians protest the second law of thermodynamics on the steps of the Kansas Capitol.

"What do these scientists want us teaching our children? That the universe will continue to expand until it reaches eventual heat death?" asked Christian Coalition president Ralph Reed, speaking at a rally protesting a recent Kansas Board Of Education decision upholding the law. "That's hardly an optimistic view of a world the Lord created for mankind. The American people are sending a strong message here: We don't like the implications of this law, and we will not rest until it has been reversed in the courts."

The controversial law of nature, which asserts that matter continually breaks down as disorder increases and heat is lost, has long been decried by Christian fundamentalists as running counter to their religion's doctrine of Divine grace and eternal salvation.

"Why can't disorder decrease over time instead of everything decaying?" asked Jim Muldoon of Emporia, KS. "Is that too much to ask? This is our children's future we're talking about."

"I wouldn't want my child growing up in a world headed for total heat death and dissolution into a vacuum," said Kansas state senator Will Blanchard (R-Hutchinson). "No decent parent would want that."

Calling the second law of thermodynamics "a deeply disturbing scientific principle that threatens our children's understanding of God's universe as a benevolent and loving place," Blanchard is spearheading a nationwide grassroots campaign to have the law removed from high-school physics textbooks. The plan has already met with significant support in the state legislatures of Kansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Tennessee, Georgia, and Mississippi.

Above: Christian Coalition president Ralph Reed holds a textbook he claims is being used to teach physics in schools.

"My daughter's schoolbooks tell her that we live in a world ruled by disorder," said Knox Heflin, one of several dozen fundamentalists who spoke out against the teaching of the law at a Statesboro (GA) School Board hearing. "That's a direct contradiction of what it says in the Bible, about how everything is going to get better, and we'll all live happily up in heaven after the End Times."

"The only 'heat death' Jesus ever mentioned is the one that sinners will suffer for all eternity in the Lake of Fire," said Indianola (MS) School Board president Bernice McCallum. "Now more than ever, we need to hear what the Bible has to say about our public schools' physical-science curricula."

Leading physicists contend that, as the foundation of much of our current scientific understanding, a reversal of the second law of thermodynamics would have massive ramifications on the future of both our nation and the universe itself.

"Were the second law to be repealed, random particles would collect and organize themselves instead of dissipating, which could affect such basic processes as combustion, digestion, evaporation, convection--that sort of thing," Columbia University superstring theorist Dr. Brian Greene said. "There wouldn't be much sunlight, either, because all stars, including our sun, would be collecting photons from surrounding space instead of emitting solar radiation. Oh, and the universe would begin to contract rather than expand, which could possibly turn back the flow of time itself, sending our cosmos spiraling inward toward a reverse Big Bang, a sort of 'Big Crunch,' if you will."

"In light of all this," Greene continued, "I would sincerely hope that our nation's legislators think long and hard before making any decisions to amend or repeal this law."

Despite such warnings, the grassroots movement to eliminate the second law of thermodynamics appears to be gathering strength.

"This is America," said Duane Collins, a Gatlinburg, TN, distillery operator and father of five. "And in this country, we have the God-given right to change laws we don't think are Christian. We are united in our demands that the second law of thermodynamics be repealed, and our voice will be heard no matter what. That's just a plain fact, and nothing anybody says can ever change it."

 

^Landover, I presume?

 

Hey-woa-wait-woa-yo-hey-stop. Who says there's evidence for evolutin? There ain't none, and there ain't never been no missing link. The Bible says God made the universe, hencefourth God made the universe, and ain't noone shood tell noone no different none.

 

This is really wierd. The 2nd law of thermodynamics is said to be absolute. It's the reason why perpetual motion is impossible.
I just hope these lunatics never take over the USA completely.

 

But isn't is ironic how the second law of thermodynimics says that everything's running down and becoming less organized when the evolutionists say living things are improving on their own and getting better. It's the evolutionists that disagree with the second law of thermodynamics.
BOOYA!

 

It might appear paradoxical but it's only really a question of scale.
The time frame within which life appears on earth is short compared to the life of the universe.
So there's plenty of time for life to evolve and order to increase before entropy kicks in.

 

What?! This is America...a land where people came to have religious freedom....don't bitch about seperation of church and state and then say THAT... ::sigh:: Blah blah blah...these people are crazy....

Yes...if you don't start looking at the earth as something you are a part of instead of something made for you to Lord over and dominate...then yes...this will happen...you are a silly man... ::rolls eyes::
----
Btw...how is it un-Christian? That's what I'd like to know...watch out y'all--the anti-Christ is coming and he has....thermodynamics!

I hope so too...I think I would cry and move to Canada...

 

i think thats a joke article

 

BBSpot...

 

It is...haha...my friend Jackie told me it comes from an online site called the Onion...I feel dumb for getting upset..unfortunetely...it is believable...lol...that's the sad part...its really really believable...

 

Ha ha - yes it's such a crazy world these days you wonder sometimes what's coming next - what's going to be the next piece of major wierdness??

 

Why are we not teaching quantum mechanics in schools should be the real question?

It is a science that many mystics, and a physicist, Amrit Goswami, a hero to the mystics that want to build a bridge between science and religion, say proves "god" We are holding a controversial view that this science proves consciousness is the ground of all being but its true.


In the course of my life, I have become aware of a presence that exists in all things, the consciousness that creates all matter in the universe and ultimately was Me.

According to materialists, all that exists is matter, and consciousness results from the matter of the brain, it is isolated from other consciousness except through its perceived senses connected to the outside world, and memories. In this understanding of the universe, Aristotle’s willing actions coming from oneself, his notions of ignorance and force, it all makes perfect sense. Yet this is only in classical physics, the universe operates by quantum physics because everything is made up elementary particles including the brain which is where materialist scientists suggest consciousness come from. (Goswami 9) So in the numerous and scientifically proven experiments and mathematics many quantum properties were discovered that were very new and mysterious to the scientific community. These include; quantum objects in more then one place at one time, quantum objects cannot manifest in ordinary space-time reality until it is observed, and distance plays no part in observation effecting quantum influence between particles. This already implies that there is more to matter then matter.

These mysterious properties create a paradox in materialism. (Goswami 9) In materialism it is assumed that the subject observing matter, a person’s consciousness sensing the light bouncing of the chair is just as real, no matter what we observe it as or if we do. However, this doesn’t fit in, because the particles of a chair need an observer to be a chair falling into place, otherwise they are just potential. Yet look there is a chair, not potential. (Goswami 38) So there are these potentialities of where the chair, matter can be, because it is spread across probabilities. The scientists can figure that it is more likely to materialize into certain localized position over another. (Goswami 39) Heisenberg, one of the well respected and known quantum physicists wrote, “The path of electron only comes into existence only when we observe it.” Essentially, matter needs consciousness to work in the way that physical things work in the universe. Yet according to materialists consciousness only exists in certain living things. Consider this, stars breaking down in such a way that certain elements found their very improbable way to a small rock floating around a sun, and there evolved life out of the slime into animals made out of all stars, and out pops consciousness from the chunk of goo inside your skull. Yet none of that could have happened without an observer making potentialities fall into place. Yet if there was no animal consciousness which was sinking all those potentialities into place, what consciousness was observing? That is when we must abandon the materialistic explanation, consciousness is indeed the ground of all being. I am the creator of the universe as are you.




There is all kind of this stuff found in Self Aware Universe by Amrit Goswami... this book MUST be taught in every school, every science class... It brings together all the religions and sciences... everything makes sense. So I kind of sympathize with the fundies, because I think materialists are just holding on to anti-spiritual theories that will eventually pass away, just like the flat earth theory pretty much has.



The amazing coicidences that are cited in intelligent design in order to rule out random meaningless chance as being the cause of the evolution of the universe are also enough for me to prove that I exist and the material world is our dream, as well as us for there is no seperation...


But fundementalists and other intelligent design people are saying that it points to a transendent being that is not its creation and certain not in us creating it all... this seperation of God and man is insane, we are God... everything is God... These people are giving the mystics that use science to prove thier point a bad name, by linking anyone saying science proves god to fundementalism...



hehehe.

Dog is backwards for God, dog is man best friend... uh... there is a reason for this, and my friends...

Why isn't this anywhere in the fuckin debate?

Dogs get this universe a lot more then humans, don't bite the hand that feeds you, don't think to much, take it easy and have a good time... And look at those eyes, Dogs love so much. I mean come on, human beings are too smart for thier own good.

Evolution vs. creation? what about the wave collapse, what about M theory?

Evolution is the way creation works on this physical plane, and if you look into M theory, a theory that grew out a string theory, there are tons of universes all with different laws of physics...

get on with it, YOU exist.

"He laughed, he threw his head back, laughing with God and all of heaven. Sometimes it seemed as though he was laughing at God, laughing at man, laughing at me, laughing at it all. There was such freedom and youthful joy in his laughter. 'Atha! Laughing quiets the mind.' Babaji asserted with exuberance. 'When the mind is quiet, God is.'" and "Fear is the lock, and laughter the key to your heart, and I love you." -CSNY, love is appretiation, not attachment, love is acceptance not addiction, love is who you are, SHINE!


Laugh into the love, and experience REALITY!

 

Because thats all quantum mechanics theory and summation, when real quantum mechanics involves complex math..

 

I'm kinda of like the dog when it comes to the math stuff. Diving into all the nitty gritty math is not worth it, examining the experiments and theories is. Quantum physics was a personal message right to me as much as it was for anyone. I am a mystic, had a bunch of experiences and was tumbling down the spiritual path... a few years ago, I had never heard about this science, then start readin about it... it basically destroyed all my doubts, and in a funny way... after all quantum in latin means how much or how great... it's god saying to me, "How great? How great the amount of evidence do you need to accept me?" Because even with all my mystical experiences I had doubts at times, and I hated those doubts and tried to deal with them through my practices... Yet the doubts were strong because they seemed so logical at times so scientific, yet it went against the core of my being, and the most real moving experiences of my life... but then I read about quauntum mechanics, and saw those doubts melt away... never again to return... Yet I still deal with greed, lust, anger, and on and on... but at least I killed doubt, my most hated enemy.

So the lesson I suppose is... personal mystic experiences + quantum mechanics = no doubt.

 

That is if it is actually possible to arrive at any real understanding of quantum theory without going into the maths - which is doubtful.

 

I cant say that ive read many books trying to combine quantum theory and spirituality, but as Leon Lederman auther of The God Particle said, and which id probably agree with, books like that often jumble up the actual science, trying to fit it into a spiritual context.