Is voting worthless?

I would like your opinions. Do any of you, or all of you vote, locally and when Presidential election time comes around? Does voting make any difference (note: Bush getting the presidency first time around when popular vote was for Gore) at all?

I'm not playing devils advocate here. I really want to know. I've not voted since Clinton (as in my mind it was paramount to get Bush Sr. OUT of office), but since then I've not voted once. I just feel like I'm being yanked, and no matter what side gets in, it's all the same game. "The rich get richer and the poor get the picture."

If you're not ultra informed (as many of you here are), it's damn hard to grasp the explainations of bills on the ballots. The media is no help, it's all biased and controlled. So, I just gave up. I'm not sure if that's the right or wrong thing to do. We hear every election how many did not turn out to vote. Is this not a statement in itself, or is this pacifism at it's worst?

Does voting help? Do you vote and why? And do you not vote, and why?

Mods, if this is in the wrong section, please move.

 

Voting IS worthless, and as long as people continue believing this is their system and that they actually have a say in anything whatsoever, nothing will ever change because they will be trapped by the illusion and never see the truth behind the smoke screen. The people who own this system own the voting machines and besides, a candidate doesn't even come close to becoming the presidential nomineee unless they have proven loyal to their masters at the top. Those who haven't are usually shunned and ignored by the media altogether, so they never even really become noticed by much of the public. So whether it's Hillary Clinton or Rudy Giuliani, it doesn't matter because both will be answering to the same puppetmasters who put them there.

The scam which is Democracy works well for the Elite in controlling the public, because they can vote a party into office, then once the public gets sick of that party, they can vote that party out and vote the other party in believing they actually have a say and are making a change. This keeps the public from rebelling, because little do they know that both wings belong to the same bird and both parties are controlled and manipulated by the same few people at the top to meet the agenda of those behind the curtain. This is why agendas really never change no matter who is in office. The rhetoric might change, but beyond that nothing changes other than the face.

 

Then this just cooberates what I've been feeling for over 30 years. Last time I voted was for Clinton, time before that was in the early 80s. I remember being highly emotional at the time that Carter had lost the election, Regan had won but they wouldn't release the hostages (in Iran) until Regan was sworn in. I remember watching that on TV, moment by moment. Hoping they'd be released while Carter was still in office.


Is there not an emote here that can symbolize screaming at the top of your lungs out of futility?

 

It doesn't have to be futile though.

 

Yes, I know. So, what do you tell your Dad when he says "at least I won't be here to see it?" What do you say to him in those moments? And might I ask, what responses you get to your thoughts?

And off topic (or on, depending on how you view it): Do you appreciate Frank Zappa and his message? Did you know that at one time he was thinking of running for President? I have a tiny article somewhere here in my "memorbelia", that my Mom cut out of the Daily Breeze newpaper (Los Angeles beach/surrounding area paper) from the early 90s and sent me about it. He would have surely been assassinated, no? Yes.

 

The whole thing with Carter and the hostages was done that way on purpose. Carter didn't make a very good pawn, so they got rid of him by using the Iran Contra scandal to lower his approval, therefore making it believable for him to lose the election. Because they choose the winners anyway, all they have to do is shape public opinion to make the winner more or less believable. And this isn't hard to do, considering how many people have their opinions fed to them through the news.

 

was voting ever real? If so, when did it end and why?

 

No point in voting anymore - The entire system has been controlled for a while now

 

Hey Matt,

can you think of any other ron paul type characters from other countries?

I was thinking maybe Bove from France but am not sure.

any Paul esque politicians in Europe? You know, the types that are pretty darn honest basically good folks fighting for the people and being ignored by media types. hmm..

 

That's a good question.

Ron Paul, I saw him a few weeks back on either the Daily Show or The Colbert Report. Wasn't he the only one that raised his hand when the candidates were asked "Who here thinks English should be the first language in America?" That little scene was an eye-opener.

 

In answer to the question on voting: no, voting was never legit. There's no way these elite would ever leave it up to the people who held office. They've always put their people in office, covertly since the birth of "democracy", overtly before that, with "royalty".

This is a psychological tactic that works very well. What you do is, you trade outright and obvious control, for covert control. For example, the "collapse" of the British Empire. The British Empire never collapsed. What they did was take away their troops and their officials, and said that [X Nation] was a free country. America, for example. Britain was not "defeated in the Revolutionary War", as they'd have you think; they simply traded overt control for covert control. America is still controlled from Europe. It is not a superpower; it's just designed to look like one.

The reason for all this is simply that people will rebel when the oppresion is obvious. Troops in the street, open suppression of the people, etc. However, when people are being told they are free, nothing.
This way, you can keep control without anyone ever realizing it.

 

to me voting is by no means worthless. If you want to be involved in the process of deciding who runs your own country then it is essential to vote. If someone doesnt like a certain President (eg Bush) then dont complain about him if you never voted. To me personally politics is fasinating and i take great honour in voting my political leaders. Have a say, Stand up and Vote.

Im originally from Australia and voting is complusory i think thats another issue in itself. But in answer to your question no: voting is NOT worthless.

Naima

 

Way to ignore everything that's been said in the whole thread. Your vote doesn't count, and it never has, in the US, Australia or anywhere else.

 

Easier said than done. Try not voting one election year. And then tell me if you still have a need to voice what you feel about what's going on. I'd hazard a guess that you would. I think it's inate. It's still a "percieved" free country, no? So I can voice all I like, whether I vote or not. If I can't, then we're not really free.

First Amendment – Freedom of religion, speech, press, and peaceable assembly as well as the right to petition the government.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I don't see where it says anywhere in the first amendment, that I need to vote, to speak my mind about what's going on. But, maybe that's just my special spin on things.

 

He's just uninformed. He thinks his vote counts.

 

At the federal level, yes. At least in the US.

You are given a selection of "approved" candidates to choose from, so you are essentially voting for the lesser of several evils. They ALL got to where they are because of who back them. People who stand in the shadows. People you would not want to meet in a dark alley.

The lower down the political ladder you go, the more control the people themselves enjoy.

This strategy gives you the appearance of a democracy without any real power where it counts the most.


x

 

That's true. A couple of points, though. First, just to let you know, it's as bad in every other country too. And second, there really are no lesser evils. They're not put there because of the plans they have for office, because they don't make any decisions. They're put there because they're willing to do as they're told. I guarantee that whether Barack Obama or Rudy Guiliana "wins" this next "election" the results will be exactly the same. Only the rhetoric will be different.

 

Personally, I find voting on issues and candidates locally is more important and more effective than voting in a national election. Your local candidates have more control over what happens in YOUR life than the president of the U.S. does....

*shrugs* Just my opinion.

 

Agreed. Local politics are for real, unless there's some very important issue at stake, in which case something could be done.

 

Even, then, though, the scale is much smaller, therefore footsteps can be easily traced when shit happens.