Islam and world peace

My brothers, the holy wars that the children of Adam are waging today are not true holy wars. Taking other lives is not true jihad We will have to answer for that kind of war when we are questioned in the grave. That jihad is fought for the sake of men, for the sake of earth and wealth, for the sake of one's children, one's wife, and one's possessions. Selfish intentions are intermingled within it.

True jihad is to praise God and cut away the inner satanic enemies. When wisdom and clarity come to us, we will understand that the enemies of truth are within our own hearts. There are four hundred trillion, ten thousand spiritual opponents within the body: satan and his qualities of backbiting, deceit, jealousy, envy, treachery, the separations of I and you, mine and yours, intoxicants, theft, lust, murder, falsehood, arrogance, karma, illusion, mantras and magics, and the desire for earth, sensual pleasures, and gold. These are the enemies which separate us from Allah, from truth, from worship, from good actions and good thoughts, and from faith, certitude, and determination. These are the enemies which create divisions among the children of Adam and prevent us from attaining a state of peace.

Among the seventy-three groups of man, there are only a few who understand and fight the war against the enemy within themselves, the enemy who stands between them and Allah, the enemy who does not accept Allah and will not bow down and prostrate before Him. To cut our connection to this enemy who is leading us to hell is the true holy war.

Brothers, once we realize who is the foremost enemy of this treasure of truth which we have accepted, then we can begin our battle against that enemy. That is the holy war of faith, of the kalimah, and of Islam. That is the one holy war which Allah accepts.

We must not kill each other. Instead, we must wage war against the evil qualities within ourselves. When a child has bad qualities, what does the mother do? She tries to teach him and help him to develop good qualities. Does she call him an evil child? No. If he steals the belongings of another because he wants to play with them, that is a bad quality no doubt, but the child is not evil. Does the mother strike down the child just because he has some bad qualities? No, the mother explains things to him and tries to expel the bad qualities and teach him good qualities. That is her duty, is it not?

Likewise, Allah, who created us, does not strike down His creations for the evil they have committed. It would not make sense if He did that. They are all His children, the children of the Lord of all creation. As their Father and Mother, He helps them to dispel their evil ways and tries to bring them to the straight path. He seeks to make His children happy and good. That is the way God is. And just as God does not kill His children because they have evil qualities, we must not murder others or cut them down. Instead, we must try to improve them by showing wisdom, love, compassion, and God's qualities, just as a mother teaches her mischievous child to change. That is our duty.

No good can come from cutting a person down. If a mother constantly shows unity and love to her child, that will get rid of the child's bad tendencies. In the same way, we must help others to remove the evil qualities, teach them good qualities, and lead them to the state where they can become the princes of God.

-- Bawa Muhaiyaddeen

The entire book, which is very beautiful indeed, is available online - http://www.bmf.org/iswp/index.html

 

Bhaskar - my problem with this kind of stuff is that if it's all about personal development, overcoming negativity within oneself etc, why couch it in medieval language and the symbolism of war, satan and so on.

I think we need to really get away from all that - we need to see it without the medieval gloss. And when we do, it turns out the universe is not quite the nasty and sordid battleground it appeared to the medievals - hence we have no need for concepts such as 'jihad' other than as historical curiosities - like the idea of the flat earth and so on.
I have to say though that I think that's unlikeley to happen whilst millions are held in thrall by mass religions which really haven't benefitted them much in the last couple of thousand years, and today are simply regressive forces which cause division and conflict and are a block to social progress. Islam is especially guilty.

I think it should also be bourne in mind that the idea of jihad as asymbolic fight against evil was certainly not the original idea - the jihad fought by muhamed to establish islam among the Arabs of Mecca was a real, flesh and blood fighting war, where mass executions of prisoners and the usual abuses all took place with the full sanction and participation of the prophet.
Today, many islamists think of jihad as smashing the west. I doubt they'll change their view and adopt a symbolic interpretation. The religious condition9ng these people have been subjected too has seemingly placed a block on their intelligence.
The only answer is to scrap these old time religions and look for something better.

The truth is that you can read 'esoteric' or 'symbolic' meaning into just about anything. Remember my nursery rhyme thread over on the hinduism forum? It was a bit of fun, but I was seeking to make a serious point too.

 

These teachings are phrased for particular students at a particular time. Mohommed's followers weren't college grads, they were humble folk of the desert. He taught them in the language and terms they understood and were familiar with. When we study scripture now we must keep that in mind. Same goes for any religious teaching, indeed, any teaching at all.

Yes, you can read something spiritual and meaningul into anything. You can learn from everything. So why not do it? What is wrong with that? If someone finds enlightenment through a nursery rhyme is it any less satisfactory than if it comes from studying the words of Sakhyamuni?
It is not lightly that Hindus remind us that the entire universe is our teacher.

The thing is, the scripture is here. You can't destroy it, you can't burn it, you can't forcibly edit it. That is not practical, nobody is going to accept that and it is against the very principles you espouse. What you can do is learn from it, and to take from it what is useful and meaningful to you.

 

I'm not sure Bhaskar. The trouble with the koran specifically is that it seeks to lay down the shape of society, and it's blueprint seems to me to be a bit primitive and repressive.

I don't like the way women are seen as inferior.
I don't like punishment by mutilation.
I don't go with the concept of jihad or conversion by force.
I don't believe the prophet of islam wass the only one to whom the truth was revealed.
Hence, I have no time for the koran.

I agree it was formulated for ignorant and simple people - but the world has moved on, and sadly, these ignorant and simple people haven't. (they have moved on in terms of the outer world, but their inner world is fixed)
In to-day's world, I think it is only a source of conflict, brainwashing and indeed, violence, because of the way in which it is consctructed.

 

Bill, if you had actually taken the time to truly study the koran, not merely take the word on the street, then perhaps you would understand these things. The fact that you are even now speaking of jihad as conversion by force, makes me doubt if you bothered even read my post above.

You might have read a translation of the text somewhere, but I am yet to come across even one that is satisfavtory. I have seen many a scripture mutilated in translation and the koran is no exception. I don't say you must go and learn arabic and read the Koran. However, I do think that if you want to make statements about it, then you would serve yourself and others well if you took the time truly learn something about the subject. Otherwise it is better to remain silent lest you regret your words someday.

Further I never called the followers of Mohommed ignorant, they were simple, and not widely educated, but that does not mean they were ignorant. They were wise enough to recognize a true teacher and to follow him faithfully, which is more than can be said for a majority of todays intelligentsia.

 

Bhaskar, I have read the koran and studied the history of Islam up to a point.

I'm afraid that even if it were true that the jihad and punishment by mutilation along with the repression of women are all due to mistranslations etc, it makes no practical difference, as these things are features of life in many Islamic countries. And they say they base it on the koran.
I don't think it is a result of mistranslation - it's there in the book.

Before taking me to task for my ignorance of Islamic history, I 'd ensure that you have knowledge of it yourself, including the jihad that had to be fought to establish it even in mecca.

 

I never claimed that I am well versed in Islamic history. Every religion every civilization has bloody skeletons. Dont brand them by it unless you wish to paint all of humanity as violent and bloodthirsty species.

I only challenged your knowledge of Islam. Islam is not what Muslims do. Islam is the spirit of what Mohommed taught.

 

Right - well, if you look into Islamic history you'll find that it all began with a war to establish Islam among the Quraish, Muhamad's own clan ( the arabs of the arabian peninsula were basically tribal in pre-islamic times and engaged in continuous petty warfare)who ran Mecca at the time.

During the course of the war, which was on a pretty small scale, many abuses took place with the full sanction of the prophet, including the execution of over 300 jews who refused to accept Islam.
The prohet also spoke of having seen the souls of some who fell in the jihad in paradise.
Given all that it's not hard to see where today's Islamic militants get their ideas.

After Muhamad's death, his followers had, within one genration conquered a huge area from North africa to Persia. One of the most rapid military expansions in history which left the arabs in control of an area larger than the Roman empire at it's maximum point of expansion.
The genaral idea was that 'pagans' could be converted by force, but so called 'people's of the book ' ie jews and christians were to be tolerated.

Thus when I hear how Islam is a religion of peace, I tend to have grave doubts.
If you study the koran, you'll find many verses which encourage Muhamad in his war to establish Islam.

I know other religions have had wars, but I can't think of any other which could only be established through warfare, or which has relied principally on war to spread itself. Nor can I think off hand of any other historic religious founder who engaged in war or mass executions.

As to what Muhamed taught - it is pretty dismal in my view. A machismo god who is totally separate from us, and who is a judgemental and fearful being. The idea of one life followed by an eternity of reward or punishment dependent of if you accept the koran or not, opression of women (a man can have 4 if he wants), and a total intolerance of anything but bland mono-theism.
Sufi teachings come from pre-islamic sourses and are considered heresy by the orthodox.

Anyway, that's about all I want to say here.

 

Apparently you have NOT studied properly, because according to Quar'an there is no eternity of punishment, as long as you realize your faults, you are eventually forgiven.

 

Even if you were right about that, and actually, I think you're incorrect, it still leaves all the other stuff, which in terms of our real life here and now is extrememly negative.

But even if the islamic hell were only a temporary thing, it makes little difference, as it still indicates a belief in a vengeful monster type deity.

 

I AM right about that. I would do a lot to defend my beliefs, but lying is not included in the means with which anyone should defend anything.

 

If it's only temporary, so what? Who would want to beleive in a god that punishes people as described over and over repeatedly in the koran anyway? Only those with hate in their hearts, or those with very little or no spiritual realization. It is a fearful view of life which is designed simply to control people and keep them in bondage.

As for lies - islam is a lie.The idea of one prophet is a lie, the idea of a moralistic and vengeful deity is a lie.

 

Well I feel sorry for you, it appears that you have spoiled your ego so much that you feel that somehow you are more important than God or your fellow human beings. I would never so openly attempt to harm you by claiming that your whole existance is a lie, but I respect your right to do so to me. However I am sad for you.
Muhammad said that no man is superior to another but by his actions. Can you honestly claim that to be a lie?

 

Don't waste your pity on me - It isn't required.

The thing is anyway, that it is not doing good that is rewarded, but belief in the koran and in allah. Many humanists do a lot more good in the world than the so called religious, who are often simply the ones who hold humanity back from advances.
As to 'superior' and 'inferior', I don't think it's at all helpful to think in such terms. Most wrongdoing stems from the disfunctional nature of human societies. The perpetrators whom you and your islamic buddies think are going to hell, are more often than not victims, and usually have been traumatized - sometimes by oppressive and medieval religious cults. And certainly by the sick societies created by islam.

 

The whole earth, and everything living or non living on it, are belonging to Allah. This includes the non believers. And you are wrong to say that only belief is rewarded. I am thinking now, that as open minded as you are, and knowledgable about other life styles, that you are just as wrong as anyone else who is not Muslim when it comes to Islam.

 

I am sorry if you are offended, but I'm afraid it is inevitable that muslims will be offended. So much to get offended about isn't there? Pricks to the ego.

I don't intend a to add any more to what I've said on this thread. I responded to it only because to me, Islam looks very much like the enemy of world peace.

 

You offended me by doubting my words which were fact, then you said that Islam is a lie, which would in turn make me a liar. Wether you believe in the Quar'an or not is irrelevant. And yes I have a personality, not one that generally harms others, but one which I would appreciated being at least known to be honest. There's my out of line ego for you

 

Do you think that the medievals who believed in the fat earth were liars? It was an untrue thing they believed, but not because of some moral deficiency, as in lying, but because they were ignorant of the truth.

 

Bill I hope you're enjoying it up there on the moral high horse. Maybe if you got off it, you might learn something or aspire to at least a meangful conversation.

Or even the basic himilty of one who doesn't know everything and isn't the most righteous person in the world.

All you accomplish by talking the way you do is to hurt and anger others - you are doing absolutely nothing to promote the values that you so cherish. You are in fact working against them.

 

Then its really the ignorance thats the problem. When we really think about it, it is the ignorance steming forth from suffering human condition that creates so many problems around the world.

We can take a very simple example of fighting with our loved ones or take a complex example of two fighting countries. Its the same, there is a disagreement due to the lack of understanding and compromise, this stems from ignorance. Now, I do not know much, but ignorance is there everywhere, it does not limit itself to a religion.