Islam is about peace and love?

So I've read little bit Quran and I need some answers. I'm not islamophobic just curious what do muslims think about this question.

1. If Islam is about peace and love then why did Mohammed and his followers killed so many people?

I understand that in Quran new verse is always overriding the old verse. Why Allah changed his mind so many times? Why he seems to be peace loving god in the beginning but in the end he seems pretty violent and permits to kill people for various reasons.

Thank you.

 

I'm not Muslim so I can't say for sure but I can however assure you it's most probably the same as the crusades with the Christians, and versions of the bible in various parts of the world/ and at times in history.

There are many versions and interpretations, and as with all barrels there's bound to be a few bad apples that twist it to suit their own greedy ends.

At the end of the day it's down to how the individual see's it, if you only see the peace and love then for you that is what it's about. If you see hate and violence then so be it.

What you interpret is only your own soul mirrored back to you. So if you are seeing it as pretty messed up then to you it is about chaos and order, it is about finding the balance.

 

it seems to me that islam preaches order

through hatred and fear.

 

I have seen muslims who experience their religion as one of peace and love as well. It seems a lot more attractive when you learn about islam via such persons instead of via the media or mainstream channels nowadays. I sometimes get the thought that before roughly 30 years ago islam was not perceived to be such an aggressive religion at all (despite it's aggressive origins) by the western world. Of course when compared to 'our' civilized western religion it shows that both have violent parts in history and both can be viewed as both an organisation that spreads hate and fear and one that is about peace and love, it just depends on your perspective.

 

It is not so useful to decide what things represent, but more so to decide upon and implement the effects you would like to see.

 

No, it's not really the same. The difference is that Jesus himself did not lead anykind crusade or war on anybody, nor did he use any violence. But Muhammed leaded war against infidels and used and let people use lots of violence. You see the difference? Now I'm not christian, I'm not believer at all. I just don't understand how you can talk about peace and love while you use violence and sword? It is written right in the Hadith, the source book about life of Muhammed. There aren't different versions of Quran or hadidh, both contains lots of violence.

Jesus did talk about peace and love and also did live the life of peace and love. Now christians have used and use violence too, I'm not saying that, but that really dosent matter as the Jesus was whole different person than his followers.

Now you can show some verses from Quran and Hadidh that are about peace. But they are all from the very beginning of the Muhammeds religious life. The new verses are more violent, and the core thing about Quran is that always the new verses covers the old verse. This mean that even if Muhammed said in the beginning that don't use violence, that dosen't count anymore if the new verses says that violence is ok in some cases. And when reading the Hadidh you can see that Muhammed was peacful only in the beginning of his religious career, once he started to gain more power and followers he went war against anybody who was against him and Islam. Is that peace and love?

Islam is about dominating every aspect of human life. Sharia law is the very essence of islam, and you can't deny it. It has been said that anybody who leaves islam need to be killed. And this is not wrong interpretation of Quran or Islam. It has been said by Muhammed himself that f you don't come back to Islam you need to be killed.

Its not real Islam if you use only the verses you like. Many muslims actually do this and its good thing, because Islam can be very violent if used as it written.

You can learn about Islam from Quran and Hadidh. You should read it. From nice muslim people you learn only about nice people not about Islam. Like I said most muslims themself might not know about the violent part of Quran or Hadidh or they just don't care.

 

As a lot of muslims are happily doing.

 

It is said that jesus drove the money changers from the temple. Erosion is violent as rainfall wears a mountain into the sea. I would say you do not really comprehend what is the same and what is different.

 

I think most verses are open to interpretation. Just like muslims do not interpretate the islam all the same. Just like all the offshoots among christians the islam is not so uniform as we seem to view it from our generally ignorant view. Seems to me we can compare christian and muslim origins very well by the way. Do you forget the Old testament? It is always included in the christian bible and christians have also acted violently against infidels because of it. Just because Jesus himself (generally) didn't doesn't exclude comparison.

 

Came to mind right away here as well :biggrin:

 

I think you didn't get what I meant, to clarify I did not say "Jesus himself led a war". But simply stated that his followers did, my point was to remind others that all religions have had their problems, no religion is flawless.

Do you realise what you are essentially saying is that that is how you choose to see it, that Islam is the root of evil because by your perspective nobody can learn to be nice from Islam?
And do you not realise there is violence in the bible (not to mention incest "[11] Abraham answered: I thought with myself, saying: Perhaps there is not the fear of God in this place: and they will kill me for the sake of my wife: [12] Howbeit, otherwise also she is truly my sister, the daughter of my father, and not the daughter of my mother, and I took her to wife.") also, that many a christian has turned a blind eye to.

To say "From nice muslim people you learn only about nice people not about Islam." You might as well also say; From decent christian people you learn only about decent people not about christianity. and yet sound morals can be taken from both if you know where to look.

 

Both the bible and koran have passages that condone and encourage violence. There's nothing wrong in highlighting the violence endorsed by the koran of course, but to do so whilst ignoring violence in the bible is a double standard.

 

Yes. The problem with religious texts raises when they are taken literally and as absolute truth. Its good to see that in arab world there are lots of youth who start to think with theyre own head. Islamic country is not liberal or democratic, and sharia law is just barbaric. I'm not saying that Quran don't have anything good in it, but it should be treated only as any book, not letting it control youre life.

 

I would not judge the religion because of an insane person that murdered because he claimed to be a member of al'quaida (of which there seems to be no evidence). IF the religion would be in it's so called dark ages wouldn't that imply that there is also another lighter side..
Perhaps it is in it's dark age because of projection and it's followers are pushed in a corner and put in a bad light for reasons that have nothing to do with the islam.

 

Are you saying our lives should not be organized by rule of law?

 

I think people are free to let it control their own life in the end, it becomes problematic when you apply your religious laws on your fellow men. Doesn't seem to be a typical islamic problem to me though.

 

Yes, rule is through consensus, we always choose with a guide. Without consensus there is conflict by definition.

 

All religions are fear based. Fear works, it keeps people under control. Islam uses fear just as Catholicism and Christianity does. However I believe that whilst C&C have evolved into more tolerant religions - in Europe certainly - many hardcore Christian nuts in the US - Islam is showing less signs of this. At least the general gist seems so. I have not read the Koran, I have better things to do with my life. It is however a series of texts that were written by many people many years ago, and edited and translated many times. Badly.
Now we have these self-serving self-righteous "clerics" who spend their time telling people what to do based on THEIR personal agenda and fucked up beliefs.
Islam does want to dominate the world and it has no place for other religions, or non-believers. They are infidels. If this is not living in the dark ages what is?
The gist is, "believe what we believe or you must die. In addition you must respect and not challenge what we believe or you must die. Plus you must not take the piss out of us, or you must die"
I do not think there actually is anything in the book that promises virgins to suicide bombers or so called "holy martyrs" This is just a bunch of lies by clerics. You dont see them lining up to be fitted with explosive vest do you? No, they are too busy hiding behind their books. These people should all fuck off and die. Miserable, humourless, women hating shits. The world would be a better place without them, leaving actual peaceful Muslims free to get their religion up to date and into the 20th fucking century.
I am intolerant of Islam's intolerance!

 

Me too but that intolerance isn't the main focus point of the religion so it seems unwise to me to solely base your opinion on it. Same with the fear part, we know by now the established religion uses fear, that's great. Doesn't mean it is justified to be intolerant to the religion itself (or to judge all their followers) because the people with power has shown again to not be able to handle it.