I'll try to keep this simple... Do you think certain ppl are more suspceptible to being brainwashed, by other ppl or even by themselves? or more easily manipulated by others? how do you feel about "brainwashing"? many magazines tell ppl (girls mostly) to repeat to your refelection in the mirror that you are confident/ pretty/ happy/ normal/ capable/ successful etc etc etc i want to hear some other people's thoughts on this, whatever might apply, your own experiences, positive or negative, whatever. the primary topics i'm thinking of where this applies are religion and sex... (and not so much POW camps... because i have no experience with those) lots of manipulation and brainwashing going on there in my opinion. i think it can be bad sometimes, and good sometimes... for those who have sefl-esteem issues i can see the benifit of telling yourself positive things, or forcing yourself to smile (because sometimes it can change your mood around and the moods of those around you) but where does the line get drawn between somebody being manipulated to think something is enjoyable, or good for them, and them actually enjoying it without the encouragement... ? i guess this can be taken lightly or to an extreme (getting your kid to go to school, or molesting him/her)
i hope that made sense.... if i need to clarify something i'll try to rewrite my thoughts up there, or add to it.
You'd best define your terms. By brain-washing you mean forcing a belief against someone's will, I'm assuming?
i found some definitions on the web: brainwashing: "A non-violent method that uses mind control techniques to convince a person to abandon some of their basic beliefs and adopt the beliefs of the indoctrinator." kind of goes along with manipulation, in my opinion, but here's a definition of manipulation for you too: "exerting shrewd or devious influence especially for one's own advantage" here's a definition of self-hypnosis: "Autosuggestion is a process by which an individual trains the subconscious mind to believe something, or systematically schematizes the person's own mental associations, usually for a given purpose. This is accomplished through self-hypnosis methods or repetitive, constant self-affirmations, and may be seen as a form of self-induced brainwashing." hope that helps
yes I do believe some people are more easily brainwashed than others. as far as religion goes, yes I absolutely believe that some religions/churches/sects do try to brainwash people, whether they do it on purpose or not, depends on the situation. I have personally witnessed people being brainwashed by churches though. I was almost sucked in myself (for about a year or so I was a hard core holy roller). This is why for me personally I do not believe in teaching young children any religion at all. They believe pretty much everything adults tell them and they don't really get to figure things out for themself like religion which plays a huge part in who they become. And then often times they aren't given choices, it is just this way or no way. Which is ironic because most religions are the same anyway. As far as positive reinforcement like telling yourself you are pretty, I don't think that is a bad thing, but I don't think it always works either, however I don't think it is brainwashing. I think that it can go too far there are cults out there based on the ideas of positive thinking. If you want to do some research on them, you could probably find more info. They start out making people think that they are helping participants "better" themself, but really they are bettering the cause and the bank account of the organization. I disagree with your definition of brainwashing though. It is more like they deprive you of things that you need like going to the bathroom or food or water or making you stay up all night, so they can "break you down". It may be non-violent, but it isn't all honky dory either.
i'll look up those cults you mentioned, thanks for the post i'm confused about the last part though... are you saying you experienced the deprivations you mentioned when you were almost sucked into the religion you mentioned?
yes some people are super easy to manipulate others are really hard to and yeah, as far as what exactly counts as brainwashing is more or less a relative thing...
No, I didn't personally experience those things that I was describing, I'm just saying that is what most groups do to manipulate people if they really are trying to "brainwash" them. It isn't generally enough to just keep repeating a mantra. You have to "break them down" mentally and emotionally so they can change their way of thinking on a deeper level. This reminds me of an episode of King of the Hill that was aired recently. Funny episode where they tried to tell Luanne and Peggy that they were all named Jane and they had to eat rice and they couldn't go to the bathroom so Hank made steak and waved it in front of their faces to "snap them out of it". Course that is a cartoon. Specifically the cult that I have done some reading on, that you might look into is the Landmark Education Forum. There are a lot of people who don't believe it is a cult though, but I personally do.
There's an old 80's film called, 'The Never Ending Story', where a character called, 'Gmork' states, 'men who have lost their dreams are easy to control, and whoever has the control has the power'.... I used to belong to a cultish religious group, didn't think it was cultish and avidly defended them, until they came out and stated that they were wrong. I spent several years in my youth, becoming the spiritual person they were creating me to be, extremely committed, and a worker for the top leaders.... I don't think they intended for me to be brainwashed though, but they saw me as an 18 year old as someone they could prey upon to make a disciple out of. This was hurtful in later days...because i gave up all my dreams, hopes, schooling, to become a full time minister... which, i never really accomplished. Results of all of this extremism, was myself driving myself bonkers trying to figure out everything spiritually, and the bible....trying to figure out God's next move, trying to build churches, etc. There was little or no grace in my life. The cross to me didn't mean Jesus dying for man, it meant, 'let's go out there and turn the world upside down, by making more disciples until it leads us to crucifixion'.... Well, i think i ended up crucified! It ended me up in a mental institution in the end!! Brainwashing, then, in my case was innate (is that the word)... it was something that just occured whilst people went about their lives of trying to live up to the top leaders of the movement... I'm not so sure that the Leader's didn't do it deliberately in other cases. your friend, Cranberry Juice
I believe that some people are more easily brainwashed as well. I see it in people everyday in different instances. I think the biggest thing that relates to is an issue with the person's self in which they don't really know themselves...whether it's because of low self esteem or just failing to take time out to learn about themselves, I don't know, but I do see it in people all the time. I have friends that I can debate with, and literally NOT get anywhere, and argue with because they are just as firm in their beliefs as I am... I then have other friends who after a couple minutes have this "You're right" attitude and begin to believe it. Which is why I usually choose not to talk about personal moral issues with those people anymore, because I honestly don't want to be the reason someone's mind changes. There is a big difference between having an open mind, and learning to see another person's point of view, and even switching beliefs because you learn about it to the point where you feel that you may have been miseducated/underedcuated about the topic etc. ...quite different from those who don't have confidence in themselves and their values, and instantly are persauded with little to no question asked... I can't explain it in words, but it's one of those things I'm sure you all have seen. I'm the type of person who will not budge on many instances, but I do have an open mind to LEARN about the opposing view, and in certain circumstances I have an open mind to possibly actually see it the other way around if I can be factually persauded. But brainwashing usually isn't about being factually persauded, it's usually about pitching a "sale"...not literally a sale most of the time, but it's more about advertising your beliefs. Making them appeal to others through certain tactics, rather than pointing out facts or numbers. Guilt/emotion, sexuality, etc. plays a big part in "brainwashers" methods. People that are [more] affected by advertising, tend to be affected by people that brainwash. Brainwashing is cult like, and it scares me. It's not about teaching anyone anything, or trying to find a common ground with someone, it's about conforming, and creating a world of clones...mindless soulless beings. I don't know why certain people seem more affected by these things, but I can see that some are and some aren't. My roomate will see an ad in a magazine or a commercial on TV and she will HAVE to buy whatever it is... It's just like how some people are so easily scammed and others aren't. My mom was sort of gullible when it came to TV ads and what not, and would buy things off infomercials and the like, and my dad was the type of person who would say "it's all a fucking scam, they are such bullshit" etc. My mom often wasted her money on things because it was either useless to her [and she bought it just because the advertisement drew her in THAT much], or because she WAS scammed and was drawn into certain charges, etc. that they dont tell you about in the ad, etc. yeah. That shit scares me. Advertising and what not doesn't scare me itself, it scares me that some people are so easily sucked in.
agree with you, I hate to see it also when people can't think for themselves but need to go to others for advice.... not occassionally, but all the time...
Luckily I signed up for just the right class to explain all the psychological studies done on this topic... (Social Psychology) so i'm sure i'll be posting in this thread during the semester. i'm sure you guys can't wait. thanks for all the posting in here, i love to hear other opinions and stuff you've read. it's really scary how much ppl want to fit in and be of the norm and choose when and where to voice their opinions based on culture and people they interact with, even in short stints like experiments... racism, nazism, mass suicide, religion, morality, wanting to be liked, to fit in, etc etc etc....
