Marine videotaped executing unarmed, wounded prisoner in Fallujah

Military investigates shooting of wounded insurgent
Commanders fear tape will discourage surrendering
Tuesday, November 16, 2004 Posted: 3:07 AM EST (0807 GMT)


FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military is investigating whether a Marine shot dead an unarmed, wounded insurgent during the battle for Falluja in an incident captured on videotape by a pool reporter.

The man was shot in the head at close range Saturday by a Marine who found him among a group of wounded men. The wounded men were found in a mosque that Marines said had been the source of small-arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire the previous day.

The Marine in the videotape has been removed from his unit and taken to the headquarters of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, and the Navy's Criminal Investigative Service said it plans to question one of the other wounded Iraqis as part of the probe, according to the pool reporter embedded with the unit.

"Let me make it perfectly clear: We follow the law of armed conflict and we hold ourselves to high standard of accountability," Marine Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler said Tuesday. "The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect rights of all persons involved."

The investigation will determine whether the Marine violated any rules or should be charged with any crime. Lt. Col. Bob Miller, a staff judge advocate for the 1st Marine Division, said wounded insurgents who pose no threat generally "would not be considered hostile."

The Marine seen shooting the man was part of a squad from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, which had been part of intense house-to-house fighting in southern Falluja.

U.S. rules of engagement prohibit American troops from killing any prisoner who does not pose a threat, and commanders say they are worried the video might encourage more insurgents to fight to the death rather than surrender.

The military asked that networks obscure the names and recognizable faces of the Marines inside the mosque when they broadcast video of the incident. The request came from Marine judge advocate Col. John Weil to NBC News, which videotaped the killing, and was based on privacy concerns.

Friday, the Marines were fired upon by snipers and insurgents armed with rocket-propelled grenades from a mosque and an adjacent building. The Marines returned fire with tank shells and machine guns.

They eventually stormed the mosque, killing 10 insurgents and wounding five others, and showing off a cache of rifles and grenades for journalists.

The Marines told the pool reporter that the wounded men would be left behind for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. But Saturday, another squad of Marines found that the mosque had been reoccupied by insurgents and attacked it again, only to find the same wounded men inside.

Four of the men appeared to have been shot again in Saturday's fighting, and one of them appeared to be dead, according to the pool report. In the video, a Marine was seen noticing that one of the men appeared to be breathing.

A Marine approached one of the men in the mosque saying, "He's [expletive] faking he's dead. He's faking he's [expletive] dead."

The Marine raised his rifle and fired into the apparently wounded man's head, at which point a companion said, "Well, he's dead now."

When told by the pool reporter that the men were among those wounded in Friday's firefight, the Marine who fired the shot said, "I didn't know, sir. I didn't know."

The Marines said they are investigating why the wounded Iraqis were left behind for 24 hours and whether the man was killed illegally. Navy investigators said they believe they have located the fifth Iraqi -- the only one not wounded a second time -- who said he wanted to provide information about the killing.

Before the Marines entered the mosque Saturday, a lieutenant from one of two squads involved in the fighting was told that there were people inside.

"Did you shoot them?" he asked.

"Roger that, sir," one of the men replied.

"Were they armed?" the lieutenant asked. The other Marine shrugged.

The Marine who shot the Iraqi man had reportedly been returned to duty after suffering a minor facial wound Friday.

About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.

The human rights organization Amnesty International raised concerns about violations of the rules of war last week, after a British news program broadcast video of what it said was the killing of another wounded insurgent by U.S. troops.

Amnesty also noted reports that insurgents have used mosques as fighting positions, and in one incident appear to have used a white flag to lure Marines into an ambush.

"All violations of international humanitarian law and human rights law must be investigated and those responsible for unlawful attacks, including deliberate targeting of civilians, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, and the killing of injured persons must be brought to justice," the group said in a statement issued Thursday.

 

I just saw the video in question, and it's pretty sad, really. This was on a Canadian news channel, but the segment was taken from an American news channel. I then went to CNN and they were talking about the video, and how the shooting was part of the "fog of war," how this kind of thing happens when the soldiers go throught what they have. That's nonsense, though, if you see the video. All of the Iraqis are prostrate, posing no threat; and then the one American suddenly gets all keyed up, starts yelling and shooting. This is a war crime. It's no different then what the Waffen SS did to wounded prisoners during WWII.

 

thats murder and he should be tried and sent away...i heard htis guy was already removed from his unit

 

This is not only an act of one person, this has been happening all over Iraq, it was just that this so happened to be caught on tape, that is how US military are trained, they are trained to think anybody on the other side is an enemy, even if they are an insurgent or not, anybody from that country is an enemy and you have to kill or be killed, take a look at vietnam and the civilians who were killed as VC even tho a large number of them weren't.

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

as I understand it the guy was pretending to be dead in which case he would be justified in shooting him .

I havnt seen the video but if your dealing with people who want to kill themselves with hidden explosive belts what else can you do

I heard on the radio that one of his friends had been recently killed by a boobytrapped dead body.
I really dont think this is the same as the waffen ss who knew the jews they were gassing were not armed, I think you should put yourself in this guys situation

I know for a fact talking to old british soldiers who fought the japanese that they used simular tactics and Id put the blame in the sort of suicide tactics both the japanese and jihadis use

 

I am glad that the military allowed this video out..so that it can not be deemed that embeded reporters can't cover all the tragedies and dicisions made.

 

I saw it on Channel 4 news (not the censored version the bbc are showing) and couldn't believe I was seeing it. Absolutely disgraceful. I can guarantee you that the amount of "insurgents" will double after Iraqis see that cos despite what the US would have you believe it's a well known fact that most of the "insurgents" are Iraqi and not foreign nationals.

Also the soldier involved is nothing but a low-life piece of scum.

 

The Waffen SS was the military arm of the SS, and they didn't have anything to do with the concentration camps. What I was refering to was the numerous allegations that the Waffen SS executed Allied prisoners on the spot. This did happen on a number of occasions, but many of these cases were the result of hot-headed junior officers or NCOs. Remeber, even if they were Nazis, they were humans, and they too had lost many comrades, were hungry, frightened, tired and mad. If there's no excuse for what they did, then there shouldn't be one for what this Marine did either. And I do think that this has probably happened on many occasions in Iraq, but this is the first time someone was caught.

 

the waffen ss ran mobile killing squads also I believe they provided guards in concentration camps .
I know that lots of the people who fought the ss used to shoot them on the spot ,Ive spoken to people who never took ss prisoners if they could possibly help it .

partly this was because the ss would try to trick you so they could kill you while they gave themselves up and partly because the ss were really hated , they didnt take that many prisoners themselves and often mistreated the ones they took .

most likely this guy will be punished because he was unlucky to be caught on film, but its the sort of thing that happens in wars

very likely this wounded guy was fighting against him and his friends before he got wounded , if he got well most likely he would go back to being a jihadi .

so why shouldnt he shoot him , this marine didnt keep the guy in a cage and slowly behead him and then film him a bullet is quite quick

I dont think you can put yourself in his position unless you have people trying to kill you .
if your in a battle you need to be in a pretty ruthless frame of mind having feelings of hatred for the people your fighting.

I would imagine our troops have simular feelings towards jihadis as people used to have towards the ss, genuine feelings of hatred ....they wouldnt take this american prisoner and if they did they would just behead him so why should we get worked up about this marine shooting one of them

 

I'm not trying to defend the Waffen SS, but you could also argue that they acted the way that they did because they knew that if they were taken prisoner, they wouldn't be alive for very long. Remember, on the Western front when incidents like Malmedy occured, they had their backs up against the wall--Germany was in ruins and they knew what their fate was going to be once it collapsed, so obviously they're not going to care about a few prisoners.

The Allies did it, too, though, but we never hear about it, and most people don't care in light of what the Germans did.

As for the Waffen SS, like I said, they were the military arm of the SS, and were used for combat. Concentration camp guards were SS, just not Waffen SS. The Waffen SS participated in anti-partisan activities and for pacifying certain areas, but for the most part, were utilized on the front lines. The Germans came up with a number of other units that roamed the rear areas searching for Jews and other "undesireables"; eg. Einsatzgruppen, Sonderkommando, Sicherheitsdienst, etc.

It's interesting that you're trying to rationalize what he did; there's no evidence that the person he killed had anything to do with the beheadings. For all we know he was fighting to defend his home, or out of revenge for the Americans having killed members of his family. What this US Marine did was execute him--who made him judge and jury all of a sudden. Moreover, the guy that he executed was prostrate, wounded and defenceless.

 

I actually just created a thread on this exact topic in politics, I should hava looked here first. wouldnt have created it if i knew one existed.

However mine was from a different point of view.
The Iraqis have been fighting this way since the beginning of the war, pretending to be dead and that popping up once the marines passed them and shooting them in the backs. When you see someone move and reach towards the inside of their jacket the logical thing to do would be to shoot. I think it was an honost mistake.

 

well as I understand it people were warned that there was going to be a big attack on fallujah and this guy was a enemy combatant.

we dont know he personally had anything to do with beheading people but thats whats been going on in quite a widespread manner among the side hes fighting on.

the marine would know that that would be his fate if he fell into the hands of jihadis.

and yes the wounded guy could be fighting with motives of revenge but isnt that all the more reason to kill him .
he could be fighting to defend his home that doesnt make him any less dangerous

I remember being told storys of wounded waffen ss killing doctors who were trying to help them .
some of the taliban guys we kept in cuba have been killed fighting jihad when they were released back to afghanistan .

if you know this and theres a good chance your going to get killed by a suicide attack sometime in the future ... why would you want to chance this guy getting well and killing some of your friends

 

This is abso-fucking-lutely fucking ridicu-fucking-lous.

It is IRRELEVANT if the guy was pretending to be dead. If he WAS pretending to be dead, then by international laws (and even substandard US law), he should have been taken as a prisoner of war, not executed like a dog. Defending this kind of behavior is just fucking disgusting. There is no excuse for it - and the people committing these atrocities are no better than fucking nazi scum. Repulsive. You warmongering freaks should be ashamed of yourselves for acting like its no big deal to shoot people for nothing.

 

laughingwillow Im not surprised by your reaction because your a fellow traveller of these jihadis


why should this guy take the chance that some jihadi is going to set off a suicide belt
even if hes dumb enough to endanger his own life, why the hell should he endanger the lives of his friends .

the people you should be blaming in this are the people who use suicide attacks

have you ever had someone try to kill you I have, and if I was in this guys position there is no way on earth I would take the chance that he hasnt got a hidden grenade and is planning on taking me and my friends out and get his 72 virgins.

war is about killing people, these guys were trying to kill him I dont think there has been a case where they have treated a allied or iraqi government prisoner well they beheaded 35 unarmed prisoners at one go not long ago and filmed it.

their ideological friends attacked america killing 3000 american civilians , theyve killed 1000 + soldiers in iraq in suicide attacks and roadside bombs

so what can they expect

 

Does this look like he's wearing a suicide belt to you?

And what did Amrerica expect with it's ludicrously oppressive and exploitative foreign policy?

War is shit and shit is happening on both sides ... Stop being an arse man

 

he could be hiding a grenade or wearing a suicide belt and apart from that he could be a threat if he got well ,do we know if he was iraqi or a jihadi that came in from abroad .

the waffen ss man who took out the doctors that helped him looked in worse shape than this guy and really i think you have a unreasonable expectation of how people act in wars.

yes sometimes they take people prisoners but whether they do or not depends on what the other side think of them, what both sides do, the situation at the time .

this guy was unlucky ,he supported a side that used the sort of tactics that really piss people off and dont make people want to take them prisoner

 

You know, I've read a lot on WWII, studied it, take an interest in many aspects of the conflict, because it is the pivotal historical event of the modern era, and I've never read anything about members of the Waffen SS killing doctors trying to help them.

Whatever the case, there's no justification for what happened. You can't use the justification that the guy could kill you later if he's released, even though that could possibly be the case; you can't know, so you can't pre-judge such things. Why not kill all prisoners, then?

Oh, and what's this about suicide bombing? So if they conduct warfare using suicide bombing the the majority who are fighting conventionally shouldn't be treated according to the rules of war? Well, perhaps these suicide bombers are being suicide bombers because the Americans are unfairly using advanced technology, such as high-flying jets dropping guided bombs. Is that really fair?

 

how can you tell whose fighting conventionally and whose not most of the people who stayed behind were seeking death in fullujah

the ss doctor story I heard years ago a first hand account from a soldier that had fought from getting out of dunkirk up until the end of the war and at first he had thought war was like you expect it to be .

but having friends killed by people pretending to surrender changed his views .

he didnt think shooting german prisoners out of hand was a good thing to do just that he wouldnt take ss guys prisoner if he could help it.

I also know guys who fought the japanese and they wouldnt try taking them prisoner if they could help it .
partly this was because I would think they hated them and partly fear of getting killed themselves .
I personally know a guy who was a tank commander who knew in many cases he killed burmese civilians but didnt take the chance in many cases because you couldnt tell them from japanese .
the japs used to pretend to be burmese and then do suicide attacks.

 

Am I the only one that feels absolutely no remorse for this piece of shit that got popped???

if he was a jihadi I feel sorry he picked that path , there is a sadness in that war is a bad thing and even jihadis are human .

but if I was in this soldiers position I may well have killed him , its possible that I wouldnt but I cant really blame him

 

There are an estimated 10-40,000 insurgents (US figures) fighting for their country and their people.

Are you suggesting that absloutely every single one of them is part of a terrorist fringe?