New Hare Krsna website with Prabhupada in the center

Not according to the Koran -it recommends such things.
And the Bible says eat what you like.
Both claim to be messages from God.

 

And Suka answers: (X – 33 -30 to 38): The status of
Ishvara is not harmed by any apparently audacious
transgression of morality we may see in Him, for He is just
like fire, that devours everything fed into it and remains
unpolluted. We ordinary people should never imitate the
behavior of such ruling personalities, even mentally. If
out of foolishness an ordinary person does imitate such
behaviour, he will simply destroy himself, just as a person
who is not Rudra would destroy himself if he tried to drink
an ocean of poison. It is the words of Ishvara which we
should follow, not those of His actions which are
inconsistent with those words.
When these great persons who are free from false ego act
piously in this world, they have no selfish motives to
fulfill, and even when they act in apparent contradiction
to the laws of piety, they are not subject to sinful
reactions. How, then, could the Lord of all created beings
have any connection with the piety and impiety that affect
His subject creatures?

 

prabho! ray kohe krsna hon dhira lalita;
niravadhi kama krida kore tahar sahita.
ratri dina kunja krida kore radhar sange;
kaisor boyos saphal koilo krida range.

“Krsna is called Dhira Lalita,
for He always engages in lusty affairs with Radha.
He plays with Her day and night in the kunjas,
thus He makes His adolescence a success.”


(Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya-lila 8.187, 189)

 

That could be taken as a reversal of the usual formula of 'practice what you preach'.
It's hard for people brought up under christianity to accept this, as with Christ, His actions are thought of as exemplary, and definitely to be imitated. The 2nd most popular book for christians after the Bible is 'The Imitation of Christ'.

 

also from the Srimada Bhagavatam

In Canto 5:22:7-18, Sukadev gives a description to the Sun, Moon and Planets. The passages in question are:


QUOTE
SB 5.22.7: The sun-god has three speeds -- slow, fast and moderate. The time he takes to travel entirely around the spheres of heaven, earth and space at these three speeds is referred to, by learned scholars, by the five names Samvatsara, Parivatsara, Idavatsara, Anuvatsara and Vatsara.

SB 5.22.8: Above the rays of the sunshine by a distance of 100,000 yojanas [800,000 miles] is the moon, which travels at a speed faster than that of the sun. In two lunar fortnights the moon travels through the equivalent of a samvatsara of the sun, in two and a quarter days it passes through a month of the sun, and in one day it passes through a fortnight of the sun.

SB 5.22.9: When the moon is waxing, the illuminating portions of it increase daily, thus creating day for the demigods and night for the pitas. When the moon is waning, however, it causes night for the demigods and day for the pitas. In this way the moon passes through each constellation of stars in thirty muhurtas [an entire day]. The moon is the source of nectarean coolness that influences the growth of food grains, and therefore the moon-god is considered the life of all living entities. He is consequently called Jiva, the chief living being within the universe.

SB 5.22.10: Because the moon is full of all potentialities, it represents the influence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The moon is the predominating deity of everyone's mind, and therefore the moon-god is called Manomaya. He is also called Annamaya because he gives potency to all herbs and plants, and he is called Amritamaya because he is the source of life for all living entities. The moon pleases the demigods, pitas, human beings, animals, birds, reptiles, trees, plants and all other living entities. Everyone is satisfied by the presence of the moon. Therefore the moon is also called Sarvamaya [all-pervading].

SB 5.22.11: There are many stars located 200,000 yojanas [1,600,000 miles] above the moon. By the supreme will of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are fixed to the wheel of time, and thus they rotate with Mount Sumeru on their right, their motion being different from that of the sun. There are twenty-eight important stars, headed by Abhijit.

SB 5.22.12: Some 1,600,000 miles above this group of stars is the planet Venus, which moves at almost exactly the same pace as the sun according to swift, slow and moderate movements. Sometimes Venus moves behind the sun, sometimes in front of the sun and sometimes along with it. Venus nullifies the influence of planets that are obstacles to rainfall. Consequently its presence causes rainfall, and it is therefore considered very favorable for all living beings within this universe. This has been accepted by learned scholars.

SB 5.22.13: Mercury is described to be similar to Venus, in that it moves sometimes behind the sun, sometimes in front of the sun and sometimes along with it. It is 1,600,000 miles above Venus, or 7,200,000 miles above earth. Mercury, which is the son of the moon, is almost always very auspicious for the inhabitants of the universe, but when it does not move along with the sun, it forbodes cyclones, dust, irregular rainfall, and waterless clouds. In this way it creates fearful conditions due to inadequate or excessive rainfall.

SB 5.22.14: Situated 1,600,000 miles above Mercury, or 8,800,000 miles above earth, is the planet Mars. If this planet does not travel in a crooked way, it crosses through each sign of the zodiac in three fortnights and in this way travels through all twelve, one after another. It almost always creates unfavorable conditions in respect to rainfall and other influences.

SB 5.22.15: Situated 1,600,000 miles above Mars, or 10,400,000 miles above earth, is the planet Jupiter, which travels through one sign of the zodiac within the period of a Parivatsara. If its movement is not curved, the planet Jupiter is very favorable to the brahmanas of the universe.

SB 5.22.16: Situated 1,600,000 miles above Jupiter, or 12,000,000 miles above earth, is the planet Saturn, which passes through one sign of the zodiac in thirty months and covers the entire zodiac circle in thirty Anuvatsaras. This planet is always very inauspicious for the universal situation.

SB 5.22.17: Situated 8,800,000 miles above Saturn, or 20,800,000 miles above earth, are the seven saintly sages, who are always thinking of the well-being of the inhabitants of the universe. They circumambulate the supreme abode of Lord Vishnu, known as Dhruvaloka, the polestar.

 

Room Conversation

Los Angeles, June 26, 1975


Prabhupada: So you have given up the Vaisnava-sadacara for business selling. So you can be dangerous for that.
Devotee (1): But we have also maintained the Vaisnava-sadacara. They didn't tell us...
Prabhupada: That's all right. You do that. But they do not see whether you are maintaining.
Devotee (1): But at the same time, when we were maintaining that, we had the same problems, is that, when we presented sociological applications of the philosophy, for instance, to arrange marriages in a reasonable way, that the women not be sent out on sankirtana to prostitute themselves to sell books, but be trained up to be wives, or that the brahmacaris in the temple, someone would sit and talk with them and see how many of them want to be married and try and arrange some type of training for them, knowing that most of them are going to become married, rather than just have no training and one day find oneself married, out on the street with no occupation or training.
Prabhupada: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.
Devotee (1): It's true, because of my birth in this...
Prabhupada: So how they can follow you?
Devotee (2): We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupada, that these are some problems.
Prabhupada: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaisnava acara. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.
Devotee (2): But we have done that for five years, and no one here listened to us at all.
Prabhupada: So why you are anxious to listen... You... Let them not listen. You do your own duty.
Devotee (2): We had no duty. They gave us nothing to do. They would not recognize our qualities, as we understand, even of, say Krsna consciousness.
Prabhupada: So what can I do?
Devotee (2): Well, you can make statements on certain of these things so that when they hear them, their ignorance will be dispelled.
Prabhupada: Then we have to hear both of you. We have to hear both you... There will be regular court, and we shall see.
Devotee (1): Not court, simply...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Devotee (2): That would be fine.
Devotee (1): Okay.
Prabhupada: Before me. You are saying something. They may say something else. So brothers together, we sit down together, and bring this...
Devotee (2): All right. But we have some, also, questions that don't require that. These are philosophical questions. For instance, in Krsna Book there is a statement that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now you have asked that we go and spread Krsna consciousness to the scientific community.
Prabhupada: So everyone is servant. What is the question of four billion? Krsna's servant...
Devotee (2): No, Ugrasena, King Ugrasena, that when he was on the planet, he had four billion personal servants.
Prabhupada: That's all right. He is always the master. He... The Krsna is the only master.
Devotee (2): Not Krsna. No. King Ugrasena, Prabhupada. Not Krsna. King Ugrasena. The statement is that King Ugrasena had four billion personal servants. Now, we have gone and tried to spread to the scientific community. And if we say to them, "There was a king whose name was Ugrasena. He had four billion personal servants," they laugh and say, "What did they do for toilets? What did they do for food? Where did they live?"
Prabhupada: So you want to preach this particular portion and no other portion?
Devotee (1): No. We want to... We want to know if the story has an allegorical meaning rather than a literal translation, or that King Ugrasena who was a man who lived five thousand years ago and had four billion bodyguards, or whether the stories within the Bhagavatam, apart from some of them being actual, are allegorical stories. Such as the story of Krsna and Balarama chopping off the the eighty-eight...
Prabhupada: All right. You can give up that portion. You can take other portion.
Devotee (2): We don't mean to give it up.
Devotee (1): We don't mean to give it up.
Devotee (2): We're saying how can we say to them...
Prabhupada: Anyone, anyone... Why you are going to preach that portion to a professor?
Devotee (1): No. When they read your books, they pose that question to us.
Devotee (2): They read it. They say to us.
Devotee (1): And unless we can answer that question...
Prabhupada: They ask to only you, but they never ask to us.
Revatinandana: They have. Sometimes they ask me.
Prabhupada: That's all right. Let them ask. But you can tell away that(?) but you don't repeat this thing. You can give up that portion. You read other portion.
Devotee (1): But then because so many things they have to accept on faith without knowing, it then weakens their faith as to what they should accept and why should they accept Krsna, who they can't see any more than King Ugrasena's four billion bodyguards.
Prabhupada: Don't accept. Don't accept.
Devotee (2): But we want them to accept. The point is, if we say to a scientific man, "There was four billion," and if our statement is wrong...
/Prabhupada: But our position is that if some portion we cannot understand, it is our incapability.
Devotee (2): That is all right. But since we are...
Prabhupada: That's all. Unless we have got this faith we cannot use these Puranas. In the Puranas there are many such statements.
Devotee (2): Yes, but we just want to understand.
Prabhupada: Therefore many people, they do not accept Puranas. So what can be done?
Devotee (2): We're just trying to understand it because we've never dealt with Puranas before. We have been your disciples. But when we present this to the scientific community, because you have said that if one word is wrong, the whole philosophy is wrong, so they will say to us...
Prabhupada: So let them take it and throw out, don't read it. That's all.
Devotee (2): But then they discredit the Bhagavad-gita. We don't like that when they discredit the Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Why? They don't believe. What is the use?
Devotee (2): Well, because we also want to know how did they have four billion personal servants just so that we'll be able to convince them and also...
Prabhupada: If a king has four billion servants, so it is not very astonishing. Why do you think that a king shall have only four servants?
Devotee (2): Well, there's only two billion people on the planet right now.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Devotee (2): So where did they all go?
Prabhupada: I say you don't believe, you don't take it. Why you are insisting on that point? If you don't believe, you don't take it. If you don't believe the whole book or the whole society, then who forbids you?
Devotee (2): We were hoping that there are some things which can be improved, because they have not been set up by you.
Prabhupada: No. You cannot improve. Whatever we are, we are.
Devotee (2): Why can we not improve it?
Prabhupada: No. There is no possibility.
Devotee (2): Then what is the use of action?
Prabhupada: Action, whatever action we can do by chanting Hare Krsna, that's all.
Devotee (2): But we also have to make varnasrama society or farms or businesses.
Prabhupada: That, when we shall do, we shall see to it.
Devotee (2): But we are doing it. We are.
Devotee (1): We are doing it now, and that's the question...
Prabhupada: So do it in your own way.
Devotee (2): We don't want to. We want to do everything Krsna's way.
Prabhupada: Stop it. Stop it. I say stop it. You have come to me for my advice. I say you stop it.
Devotee (2): Then, we say, what should we do?
Prabhupada: You should do your business. That's all. Earn money and enjoy.
Devotee (2): No, I mean what should we do Krsna consciously?
Prabhupada: You give up Krsna consciousness, I say. That is my advice.
Devotee (2): Why should we do that?
Prabhupada: Then that I cannot say.
Devotee (1): Isn't there a middle of the road?
Prabhupada: If you are finding so many faults, you give it up.
Devotee (1): No. We're not finding fault.
Prabhupada: Then there is no other advance, alternative. No alternative. Either you accept or reject it.
Devotee (1): We accept, but we would like some instruction on...
Prabhupada: No. I have no such knowledge to convince you.
Devotee (1): No, we accept Krsna consciousness philosophy...
Prabhupada: That's all right. Accept, or if you reject, reject.
Devotee (1): We accept.
Devotee (2): We want to apply it.
Devotee (1): We want to apply it to the world as it is now.
Prabhupada: No no. You cannot. You are not authorized.
Devotee (1): Well, who is authorized?
Prabhupada: The authorized... You are not authorized. Who is authorized, that is not your business.
Devotee (2): Then what does it mean to become disciple?
Prabhupada: Disciple, if you don't like, give it up.
Devotee (2): We do like it.
Prabhupada: You have already given up.
Devotee (2): If we didn't like it, we would not come here.
Prabhupada: No, no. You have already given up. My disciples do not keep so many hair.
Devotee (2): Many of your disciples do.
Prabhupada: No. I don't accept that. You just this one circle, little. But those who are keeping big hairs, they are rejected from my disciples.
Devotee (2): All right. That is clearing some things up.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): This is what we want to know.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): Because then that is an unequivocal statement.
Prabhupada: No. This is, that you can, that anyone who is keeping hairs and not following the rules and regulations, they are rejected from second initiation.
Devotee (2): What if they are keeping hair but they are following the rules and regulations.
Prabhupada: Then let them follow. That's a good life. But from external features he must be a Vaisnava.
Devotee (2): To get second initiation.
Devotee (1): Does that mean shaved head?
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when His students used to come without tilaka, so He refused to see his face. He refused to see his face. He said it is a crematory ground.
Devotee (2): Why is that?
Prabhupada: There is no "why." If you accept it, accept. If you don't accept, leave us, leave us. There is no "why."
Devotee (2): Then that is...
Prabhupada: You are not following strictly. You cannot ask why.
Devotee (2): We could not ask why when we were following strictly either, Prabhupada. So I'm sorry that it has to be this way.
Prabhupada: No, our thing is that we have got some principles. If anyone cannot follow, then we don't accept him.
Devotee (1): Then what do you do with the rest of the world, except for the few people who...
rabhupada: So what I can do I am doing. Therefore you have no right to ask me. What is possible by me I am doing. And those who are able to follow, they are following. That's all.

 

Devotee (2): But they cannot engage anyone else. How can you reach the intelligent class?
Prabhupada: So that is their business. That is not your business.
Devotee (2): We are trying to be disciples, so we considered it our business because we are sincerely trying.
Prabhupada: So why you are bothering me? You do your business.
Devotee (2): Because from you only...
Prabhupada: I do not accept you because you are keeping hairs.
Devotee (2): I did not know that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Devotee (2): You never told me that in Hawaii.
Prabhupada: Now I say, I'll repeat that anyone who is keeping long hairs, he is no more my disciple.
Devotee (2): All right.
Prabhupada: This is the first condition.
Devotee (1): Does that apply also for householder dharma, or is that simply for brahmacari dharma? Even you... I have pictures of you on the Bhagavatam when you did not have shaved head, with a mustache when you were doing your business as a householder. So does that apply to householders, or only to brahmacaris, that a householder must also keep a shaved head or is that...?
Prabhupada: At that time I was not initiated. You were seeing my picture, mustaches, at that time I was not initiated. Since I became initiated, I have shaven.
Devotee (1): Well, in India where one can do business...
Prabhupada: I can... Why you are bringing this question? You ask, "Why you had mustaches?" I say when I had mustaches, at that time, I was not initiated. That answer is given. That's all.
Devotee (2): Can I ask one more question, Prabhupada? What I would like to understand is why it is wrong to ask why? If I can just understand this, why it is wrong for us to ask you in a submissive way. We were humbly asking you these "whys," not because we are trying to be intimidating or we were trying to rebel, but because we have sincerely tried to understand as your disciples.
Prabhupada: So you better ask my so many other disciples?
Devotee (1): They don't have any answers.
Prabhupada: Then there is no answer. I cannot attend so many things.
Devotee (2): We are not so many.
Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which we have talked over with Revatinandana Swami and Jayatirtha. A great many...
Prabhupada: If my disciples, advanced students, cannot answer, then I am sorry. I cannot answer. I cannot answer.
Devotee (2): That we did not know. That we did not know.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now you know it. I have appointed so many GBCs because to help me. It is not possible to see everyone, individual. This is not...
Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which they themselves are posing to you.
Revatinandana: I have never met any other people who asked questions on the level that they are asking questions. I cannot answer many of their questions. I have studied all your books.
Prabhupada: I cannot. If you cannot, I cannot also. Because you have been taught by me, if you cannot, then it is...
Devotee (2): We have also been taught.
Revatinandana: I have read your books, and I have heard you lecture. And so many things they are asking, I am, have no capacity to answer them. But you must have the capacity because you know Krsna. Therefore they want to ask you personally.
Devotee (1): So that is the...
Prabhupada: So far I am not so able to answer. I admit my fault.
Devotee (1): Oh, so then that is...
Prabhupada: I cannot answer.
Devotee (1): I understand. Okay? But they are saying, the general conception of you is that because you know Krsna...
Prabhupada: You can... You...
Devotee (1): (interrupting) Excuse me. Because you know Krsna, therefore you know everything about the material world and can answer all questions.
Prabhupada: So whatever I know I have explained in my books. Beyond that I have no knowledge.
Devotee (2): If that is the case, Srila Prabhupada, that does not diminish our respect for you in the least because we have always held...
Prabhupada: So what can I do? I say that whatever I have got experience, I am explaining in my books. I have explained. So it is not possible for me to answer every individual person. It is not possible.
Devotee (2): We respect that. We understand. It is just that because they are saying these things...
Prabhupada: I have got my advanced students. They can answer. If they are unable, answer, if you do not find answer from my books, then it is hopeless.
Devotee (1): Ah! But your advanced students are saying if they give an answer that because they have been appointed by you, therefore their answer is perfectly correct, because, absolutely correct on all things in the relative world because, they have been appointed by you, and because you know...
Prabhupada: You may... That's all right. If you don't believe them, you can finish business.
Devotee (2): But are they correct? That's what we want to know.
Prabhupada: Yes. They are correct.
Devotee (2): That everything they say is the absolute truth?
Prabhupada: So what can I say? But I have no time to meet everyone.
Devotee (2): Is that correct, Srila Prabhupada? I want to know very clearly that every word that anyone whom you have appointed says is completely correct on all things?
Prabhupada: Yes. If they are authorized, it is correct.
Devotee (2): If they are authorized by you to be temple president...
Prabhupada: There is no reply.
Devotee (2): Then when (name witheld) said to me that he wanted to have homosexual affair with me, I should have said, "Okay. Whatever you say." Is that correct?
Prabhupada: So how to answer these questions?
Devotee (2): That is what he said to me. And he was a sannyasa. He is sannyasa and he said to me, "I want to have sex with you." Does that mean that Krsna was saying I should have sex with him?
Jayatirtha: So you have to see whether it is according to our principles.
Devotee (2): I'm asking you on a very practical... No. That is not what he said. He didn't say that. He said absolutely, and this is...
Upendra: Then you should listen to everything he said.
Devotee (2): I am. Because if I can judge then, if I can say, "Oh, at this point he is wrong," then that is what we are talking about, Srila Prabhupada. That is the issue. If they are absolutely right all the time and they can make no error, they wield absolute power over our lives.
Prabhupada: Where is (name witheld)? Where is (he)?
Satsvarupa: He is across the street.
Prabhupada: Has he said like that?
Devotee (2): Yes. I have witnesses.
Upendra: But he's admitted his error.
Devotee (2): That's beside the point.
Revatinandana: That's all right. But that's not the point here.
Upendra: The point is that Prabhupada, that if you come before Prabhupada for your own spiritual advancement, then it doesn't matter what other people are thinking...
Devotee (2): That's not the...
Devotee (1): That's not the crux of the matter at all.
Revatinandana: The point here is not to criticize (him).
Devotee (1): No. We did not come for that at all.
Revatinandana: That wasn't the reason. The point is that anyone, (name witheld) or anybody else, he may be a sannyasi, but if he's doing all kinds of nonsense, how can we say that he has absolute authority? Because he was in charge of the place, etc., and he is also in an authoritative position, yet he breaks the principles.
Devotee (2): His personal servant, when he came... His name is (name witheld). (He) instigated a homosexual affair with him. This boy came to surrender to Krsna and surrendered to (him). But (he) told him to do that.
Upendra: But Prabhupada...
Devotee (2): Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he did it in the name of his authority as a sannyasa. So if you say, Prabhupada, that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute license. And we don't believe that to be true. So we think it is some kind of mistake.
Prabhupada: They say like that?
Devotee (1): Everyone says like that.
Devotee (2): They do, Prabhupada.
Satsvarupa: No, they don't. Srila Prabhupada has said these things don't apply to you. Don't worry about them because you are not following the principles.
Devotee (1): But they do say, and we are following and you don't know what we're doing, Satsvarupa, because you haven't known me for two years. So you really don't know what I'm doing. You're not around.
Satsvarupa: But our society is going nicely. It's not...
Devotee (2): In some respects it's going fine. But these are problems which can be dealt with amongst us, and they are affecting all of us. And for some people these are problems though they may not be for you. I think, as far as I know, your conduct has always been very honorable. But for some people who it's not and where these misconceptions apply, it's a real problem and we're trying to deal with it because it affects our lives.
Upendra: The strength to deal with those problems comes from following sadhanacara.
Devotee (2): We are also attempting to follow sadhanacara. And if we are imperfect...
Prabhupada: Anyway, if he has said so, that is wrong.
Devotee (1): But is that then applying to everyone. Does someone who is in the adminis... (end)


© 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust

 

Molly, let me be a little bit more "clear" for you, you cannot even dare to live the type of life some of these saints live, what you know is criticism, being "the wise guy". Why don't you try to first live your life the purest way possible and then see if what the truth really is.

 

Law of Manu???

 

and thus the distinction between the Dvaraka lila and the Brindaban lila of Krishna... once you get down the basic math, all the rules get tossed out in the Godelian Brindaban lila

 

You mistake my comment, William! My point was that everything exists within God, moral/immoral, right/wrong, good/bad, all are illumined by the one consciousness and cannot exist in its absence.

 

For me it always comes after. But then, thats the way the mantra was taught by most teachers I know, and Sri Rama is my ishta devata.

I would also like to apologize for my post in which I said the other was is wrong, in fact in some upanishad it has been taught the other way also, so both are correct.

 

The point surely revolves around consciousness, or even belief. Some believe in God, others say they have some direct consciousness. However, there are many good and moral people who niether believe nor have any experience. For them, morality seems to come from some kind of human sensitivity.

Another point is that here in Europe, it was only with the demise of the power of religion and the rise of purely secular humanism that any advances in the moral or humane treatment of others has come.

In the future, I'd like to see more international human rights legislation, and the international community being prepared to back this up. Members of all religions would have to acknowledge and be bound by internationally agreed standards.
IMHO it is money which prevents this being actualized. For instance, the Saudi govt. is one of the worst in the world for human rights abuses - arguablly the Sauds use Islam as a means of controlling and oppressing their people. But because they have oil, very little criticism even is levelled at them by other governments. But they fall far short of international standards, and can do so partly because they say it's their religion. Mr. Bush, Mr. Blair and co. won't rock the boat, because they fear the results of the Saudi's cutting off the oil supply. Also, they are one of the world's largest customers for arms.
One side claim to be Christian, the other Islamic - but niether really displays much in the way of morality.

 

Another example is in the treatment of 'un-touchables' in India. No doubt the people involved in oppression of these unfortunates think they're acting in line with Hindu ethics. But it's not acceptable by more humanist and egalitarian standards. The only way to change things is through law, that is, secular law.

 

Selections From the Law of Manu​

33. The names of women should be easy to pronounce,, not imply anything dreadful, possess a plain meaning, be pleasing and auspicious, end in long vowels, and contain a word of benediction.

70. But (a student) who is about to begin the Study (of the Vecia), shall receive instruction, after he has sipped water in accordance with the Institutes (of the sacred law), has made the Brahmangali, (has put on) a clean dress, and has brought his organs under due control.

71. At the beginning and at the end of (a lesson in the) Veda he must always clasp both the feet of his teacher, (and) he must study, joining his hands; that is called the Brahmangali (joining the palms for the sake of the Vecia).

116. But he who acquires without permission the Vecia from one who recites it, incurs the guilt of stealing the Veda, and shall sink into hell.



180. Let him always sleep alone, let him never waste his manhood; for he who voluntarily wastes his manhood, breaks his vow.

181. A twice-born student, who has involuntarily wasted his manly strength during sleep, must bathe, worship the sun, and afterwards thrice mutter the Rik-verse (which begins), [font=&#23435]扐[/font]gain let my strength return to me._

201. By censuring (his teacher), though justly, he will become (in his next birth) an ass, by falsely defaming him, a dog; he who lives on his teacher's substance, will become a worm, and he who is envious (of his merit), a (larger) insect.



213. It is the nature of women to seduce men in this (world); for that reason the wise are never unguarded in (the company of) females.

 

215 One should not sit in a lonely place with one's mother, sister, or daughter; for the senses are powerful, and master even a learned man.
7. (Viz.) one which neglects the sacred rites, one in which no male children (are born), one in which the Vector is not studied, one (the members of) which have thick hair on the body, those which are subject to hemorrhoids, phthisis, weakness of digestion, epilepsy, or white or black leprosy.
13. It is declared that a Sudra woman alone (can be) the wife of a Sudra, she and one of his own caste (the wives) of a Vaisya, those two and one of his own caste (the wives) of a Kshatriya, those three and one of his own caste (the wives) of a Brahmana.

14. A Sudra woman is not mentioned even in any (ancient) story as the (first) wife of a Brahmana or of a Kshatriya, though they lived in the (greatest) distress.

15. Twice-born men who, in their folly, wed wives of the low (Sudra) caste, soon degrade their families and their children to the state of Sudras.

46. Sixteen (days and) nights (in each month), including four days which differ from the rest and are censured by the virtuous, (are called) the natural season of women.

47. But among these the first four, the eleventh and the thirteenth are (declared to be) forbidden; the remaining nights are recommended.

48. On the even nights sons are conceived and daughters on the uneven ones; hence a man who desires to have sons should approach his wife in due season on the even (nights).

49. A male child is produced by a greater quantity of male seed, a female child by the prevalence of the female; if (both are) equal, a hermaphrodite or a boy and a girl; if (both are) weak or deficient in quantity, a failure of conception (results).


3. Her father protects (her) in childhood, her husband protects (her) in youth, and her sons protect (her) in old age; a woman is never fit for independence.

 

This is good example of why this stuff just won't do.

 

pseudo science with no basis in reality, then more medieval mysogony.

 

and yet those who proclaim themselves to present God as the "basis of morality" would have these be the laws for all people to live under for a "sane" society

God may have thought like this at one time for these to be the laws for man to live by but i feel he has evolved in his understanding and these laws are no longer applicable

 

I certainly agree fully that these laws are no longer applicable. But I wonder if it isn't that humans have developed rather than God.
It seems to me that people tend to experience God or the divine in terms of their own level of culture, education, science etc. Or at least, they interpret the experience along those lines.
Hence, in the time of the Prophet of Islam, when punishment by mutilation was a social norm it's not surprising that he recomended such punishments, or even that he had the experience of God telling him this was right. Same goes with attitudes towards women.
But nowerdays, we find the idea of mutilation etc pretty abhorent - not, I argue because of any deeper of higher experience of God in people in general, but because as human society has evolved through the last thousand years or so, we see things very differently than the ancients, or even the medievals. We see everything differently. Somehow, a higher degree of sensitivity is now called for than is exemplified in many of these old codes of morality.
The old moral codes all seem flawed -