Osama Bin Laden

You're missing the point.

They already used finding osama to steal everyones privacy, rights, liberties, and other desirable assets. Now that we don't have any of those (just in case osama tries to catch a connecting flight in la guardia, we can nab him for the pot in his pocket with our full body scanners, so it's all better anyway) we obviously don't need to find him, because we're all safe, anyway.

See how that works?

Guy was in poor health before, unless the US gov pulled him out and set him up in manhattan (pretty likely, there's at least one time delta force was within hours of nabbing him, and were called off for no reason, until he'd had ample time to escape) chances are he died in a cave years ago, IMO. His supporters wouldn't share that info, only a handful of people would know, and they would likely all be killed off and in the same grave, so that only one or two people REALLY knew.

 

A few people watch loose change and think they understand engineering. Conspiracy theory is intellectually lazy.

As for Bin Laden Most of the intelligence released on him seems to imply he died long ago. Finding an unmarked grave in Afghanistan or Pakistan is an almost impossible task. And since the evidence isn't necessarily conclusive, their hasn't been a formal announcement on his death.

Since it's inconclusive, so is the general public response. It's not like people aren't still pissed. It's just hard to vent your feelings for a phantom who disappeared ten years ago.

 

Yeah, but loose change let the terrorist out of the bag stating Bin ladin was dead. You Lode are Lazy if you're... going down that route or something.

whatever aren't you me or I you?

rhetorical questions piss myself off.

 

Explaning everything you don't like, ie. obama, HAARP, earthquakes, the local PTA, etc, with conspiracy theory is lazy. Looking more closely at some things where the official story is very obviously off, is NOT lazy.


Bush&co fuck around with (and arm) the mujahadeen, then mujahadeen leader comes forward and blows up bushes shit in a fiasco where lots of people forget their lines, buildings fall for NO reason (think WTC7), there's fuckng nanothermite in the ruins, all the steel is illegally sold off as scrap before much analysis can be done despite multiple orders NOT to discard it, and bush removes said mujahadeen family members from the country, and never finds head honcho guy, while invading a totally unrelated country with a history of violently opposing the taliban in the name of FINDING taliban, to distract from not putting those same resources into finding the taliban. Yeah, sounds legit to me.

I have never seen loose change. Heard it's good though. I know there are a lot of people who DO understand engineering, who think the same things I think.

 

WTC7 was hit by thousands of tons of falling debris structurally damaging it and burning uncontrollably for 6 hours before collapsing.

Thermites only demolition potential is it's use in grenades, it's a very weak explosive used to spread shrapnel not for it's explosive potential, and the person claiming to have found it never published his findings.

There was ample time for swabs of steel to be analyzed. As you've just mentioned finding thermate in building shrapnel...

Bin Ladens family were completely innocent and left the country to avoid the massive public outrage fearing their safety. Are you implying we shoulda stung ém up?

You couldn't be more indoctrinated by a very easily disproven conspiracy theory. I suspect the conspiracy is more romantic than the truth. But it has no verisimilitude. Not a bit.

 

I may not know more about engineering than you, but I seem to know more about demolition.

Thermite, among other things, is used to melt, cut, and generally damage.

Also, I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure thermite in grenades has NOTHING to do with spreading shrapnel, thermite burns, not explodes. It's used in incendiary grenades. There may be some that send burning thermite everywhere with a small C4 explosion, sort of like super-napalm, but it's just burning metal, not an explosive.

Explosive or fragmentation grenades would generally contain C4 or another high explosive, possibly a nitro-glycerin based one in older grenades. Thermite makes an uber-campfire, easily capable of melting metal and cutting structural components.

And my knowing this has nothing to do with my thinking 9/11 is a setup-job. It's because thermite is fucking awesome. Look it up, you'll find some fun videos where engine blocks become puddles.

WTC7 sustained damage, to be sure, but closer buildings of similar build sustained much more, to the point of being twisted frames. WTC7, and only WTC7, fell in the same way as the towers:into it's own footprint, in a way that it is physically impossible for that type of building to collapse without cutting very specific points in the building. With thermite.

Burning filing cabnets won't do it. And even if they would, the whole building is metal, and as such, acting as a giant heat sink, constantly carrying off the heat. In my personal experience, it takes a lot of elbow grease on a forge blower to get a purpose built coal fire hot enough to melt steel. It doesn't happen by accadent, in fire retardant asbestos clad construction of the type existent here.

Some things here are learned from "truther" shit... and some truther shit's right. Who's said it doesn't change what they said.

Also, about osama's family, if nothing was done, no one would have thought twice about them, I expect. It would make a lot more sense to keep them around, watch them, and follow them and their comminucations to osama. Or pretend to help them, pretend to leave them to their own devices, and THEN follow them to osana. But no.

 

You're right. It was a hastily typed out response. I was aware that thermate was an incendiary.

Here's a light refutation of all the recycled conspiracy sticky facts you've just posted, posted by people who have studied and practiced engineering and demolition.

http://www.implosionworld.com/Article-WTC STUDY 8-06 w clarif as of 9-8-06 .pdf

 

WTC 5 and 4 were also damaged beyond far repair by the debris and fires, and had to be demolished, and I believe 6 was damaged to it's basement and collapsed that day as well. They were not identical structures.

 

Also sorry for not copying and pasting the relevant portions. The PDF was copy protected, and I'm kinda lazy to look up circumventing it.

 

My opinion.

I actually believe that some government shenanigans are going on with the whole deal. I won't do anything with it nor will most that feel the same way. The way 9/11 is brushed away in normal everyday conversation is truth to that.

In 50 years there'll be a special on the NGC or Oprah network whatever. By that time they'll just interview old firefighters from the time and not even address any conspiracy. In 100 years the facts will be looked at in a less patriotic sense and you may get the real story.

 

yes, and that too has been going on for some time

every time the heat gets turned up i have to resist the temptation to wear a turban in public, and to resist the temptation to think that amerika deserves every bit of actual terrorism that it does get

sadly both the oklahoma city and the world trade center attacks caused too many deaths of secretaries and janitors - and not enough of politicians, corporate heads, and media pundits

 

John McCain knows where Bin Laden is...he just won't tell us.

 

i doubt john mccain knows where john mccain is

 

I don't think rejecting your culture whose leaders are engaged in hostile foreign affairs are to accept a culture (militant Jihadism) whose leaders strategies are dominated by strategies of mass murder of civilians is remotely logical.

 

i do not wish to accept or reject any cultures, i embrace them all

i merely wish to drive the racists crazy

and have some fun

[a little]

what's logic?

 

Loose Change was not a very good documentary. It pointed out some things but the film was very scrambled. Im not 100% but I guess the film makers had never made a film before. Still gotta give them credit to expose whats needs to be known.

 

Every single statement in lose change is either irrelevant to 9/11, easily refuted, a few direct lies, and mostly conjecture which could neither be proven or disproven set to a funky techno beat.

The final cut had a million dollar budget, and the director had done several low budget movies and been denied from film school.

It's actually a pretty decent documentary and it's gotten a lot of chumps into believing some rather insane things.

On a side note, I wouldn't necessarily put it past dark elements within the militarily industrial complex to ignore or perhaps even collaborate with terrorists to create an attack in the states to propagate a war. I don't believe this to be the case, but I wouldn't put it past them.

But the verisimilitude of the the 9/11 truth claims; thermate (http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm), cell phones not working on planes, pentagon photos showing missile attacks, WTC 7 (http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/wtc7-new-evidence-from-old-photos.html)

These people don't work on facts. They work on mistrust. And the facts do not point in any way to a controlled demolition during 9/11. If the government secretly collaborated with them... I can't disprove that. But the largest passenger flying (757's and 767's) jets hit some buildings and caused them to collapse on 9/11.

 

Why is the government/military not being demanded to produce either a body or some sort of evidence of Bin Laden's existence?

They've gotten away with fighting "wars" on the basis of this phantom's existence and connection to terrorist activity. Yet they have not produced anything to justify their occupation of certain Middle Eastern countries.

This would be like the cops breaking into someone's house at night, beating the shit out of the occupants, breaking all their shit, and then getting off scott free even though they didn't have a warrant.

 

do you really think he doesn't even exist?

do you think i exist?

the level of proof is similar . . .

 

The war is not on the basis of an individual, but the organization of which bin laden is the figure head. It does matter if bin laden is dead or alive, the war will go on.