++++ peak experience

(from Shulgin) PLUS FOUR (++++) A rare and precious transcendental state, which has been called a 'peak experience', a 'religious experience,' 'divine transformation,' a 'state of Samādhi' and many other names in other cultures. It is not connected to the +1, +2, and +3 of the measuring of a drug's intensity. It is a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes, which has come about after the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, but which is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug. If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end, of the human experiment.

Sooo yeah. I'm extremely interested in this state and I can't find many examples of it on the net. I've found an interview with Shulgin saying that he's only been in this state twice, but doesn't mention what drug. I doubt that matters, though. He said he could move objects around them without touching them. Ooooh! So have any of you experienced this?

 

Yes, I have three times. Its not a drug that causes it, its you. You can experience a ++++ sober! It's a wonderful thing to say the least, and its what most of us use drugs for.

Shulgin nailed its description. It doesn't happen very often and when it does, its AWESOME. You can not set up an experience that will bring about this rating (++++). You will experience it at some point of your drug use. It will change you, that is for sure.

The only tips that I can say to help you get to this stage is to have friends that you are very close to, a setting that is comfortable, and a dose that is a "good dose". By that I mean you are not trying to have an intense experience, nor one that is a light trip (though they can come about at any dose). Do it on a special date or event and that can help it come about as well. You are very unlikely to have a plus four in a rave or concert setting though, in my experience. Though those are fun in their own light as well. My plus four experience were easily some of the best experiences of my life.

 

Codmouse said it all right there. It's a random and delightfully suprising occurrance.

 

It's definitely subjective and open to interpretation as I take it meaning that the state has to happen under the influence of a psychedelic drug, otherwise it's exactly synonymous with the term 'peak experience' as is mentioned in the definition.

I've had it happen on Ecstasy, LSD, and smoking Salvia while on Ecstasy. I have had a few other experiences where the intensity of the experience is certainly comparable to that state but maybe elements of bliss or connectedness were missing.

 

my life is _++++_

 

I get Four Plus experiences on high doses of opioid, actually. People underestimate their spiritual and transcendental properties. All you ever hear is about their addictive potential (which is quite large, I will not deny that!), but there is quite more to study about opioids. Really study and get to know the pharmacology of the opioid receptors and you will start to understand that they are way more than a simple 'depressant' or 'euphoriant.'

That is why I enjoy psychedelics and opioids both at the top of all drug experiences. I know most people don't hold this view, but I know some do!

 

I think I may have experienced it once, on 55mg 4-aco-dipt. I was sitting outside on a beautiful spring day, and when I closed my eyes I felt the boundary between my mind and the external world dissolve. Instead of experiencing the beautiful spring day, I *was* the beautiful spring day. Every piece of sensory input resonated with my entire being: birds chirping, the sound of children playing across the street, the smell of trees and grass, the warmth of the sun, the gentle breeze. There was a profound sense of "completeness"; there was nothing missing, nothing to do but just sit and bask in the glory of being alive. An incredible feeling, to say the least.

 

Im not going to say it happens to everyone. But the Dream state somewhat gets burned out just as it does on Psychedelics.. At one time, I remembered getting some deep CEV and not nodding out. I could just lay there for hours dreaming.

 

Here is a brief excerpt from an article on this topic.

http://www.paradigm-sys.com/ctt_articles2.cfm?id=19

"The term 'mystical experience' is used in many different senses by reporters and investigators of various religious and metaphysical doctrines. Moreover, many different phenomena have been termed 'mystical' (Stace, 1960; Underhill, 1974). The present report is concerned only with one specific type of mystical experience, which was termed cosmic consciousness (CC) by the nineteenth century physician Robert Maurice Bucke (1961). For Bucke, CC referred to an experience of the ground of being: 'The prime characteristic of cosmic consciousness is, as the name implies, a consciousness of the cosmos, that is, of the life and order of the universe' (Bucke 1961, p. 2). We include Bucke's classic account of his own CC experience in the Appendix. James (1925) and Huxley (1944) discussed a similar phenomenon, but usually used different terminology. For these three investigators, CC denotes a state of consciousness characterized by a cluster of phenomena including (1) passivity, (2) transience, (3) unity, (4) knowingness and (5) ineffability. Passivity means that the subject does not voluntarily control CC. Transience refers to the observation that CC is rarely sustained for longer than a half hour or at most an hour or two (James, 1925, p. 381). Unity is the experience that subject and object merge into one seamless whole. Sense of separate self weakens or dissolves. Knowingness refers to a direct insight into the nature of reality that is self validating: '. . . as a rule they [the experiences] carry with them a curious sense of authority for after-time' (James, 1925, p. 381). Subjects of CC say that the state is ineffable. It is completely different from other states of consciousness and cannot be completely and adequately described either in words or by metaphor. Some or all of the characteristics resembling those described above may occur in deep meditation states, but this report does not address the question of how those states relate to CC."

I have had such experiences a few times in my life beginning when I was about 6-7. Once while under the influence of LSD, any others were sober and spontaneous.
It is the type of an experience that if you have it, you know it, there is no maybe or doubt about it. You finally comprehend on a level that transcends language what all the stuff you've read was actually about. You KNOW beyond any intellectual reasoning or cognition.

 

Definitely. I have noticed that about 3 months ago, when I was really addicted to Suboxone (kind of weird but true!), that I rarely got any psychedelic opioid effects. But, I worked hard to lower my daily dose as well as my tolerance, and, now, I put aside two sessions a week to get to a really transcendental state. And, luckily it works again!

I am very glad that I brought my tolerance into control. It makes me appreciate my opioid use much more sacramentally.

 

I have limited experience with opiates but the few more 'profound' opiate highs I've had have seemed like moderate dose disassociative experiences. (ketamine, mxe) It has that same kind of dropping out feeling for me but maybe a little more clear headed, less visual. Is there an opiate you reccommend that consistently produces a profound level of awareness moreso than others? Heroin comes to mind but I don't believe you have tried that one yourself.

I've done oxycodone (both oxycontin and percocet), vicodin, and kratom.

 

I would suggest Hydrocodone for a really good taste of what I describe. You said you did Vicodin which is Hydro. You generally need to take a high dose to get into the transcendent state. I find that the more traditional opioids work best for that, like Morphine!

It is very different than any other 'enlightening' - drug experience i have had. Like psychedelics, the opioids can precipitate a general change in 'head-space' and, like dissociatives, one can experience pseudo-OBE type effects, but while maintaining clarity of thought and euphoria. It really is it's own kind of thing, but I feel it is overlooked because these special effects require you to be in a very calm, meditative state, with your mind completely open to such an experience happening.

I am sorry i can't word it any better, but it is a real thing. Of course, to any drug novices reading this, I would suggest taking a traditional psychedelic over an opioid because with the opIoids, you carry risks of addiction and overdose! But for a seasoned psychonaut, it is worthwhile.

 

I've been obliterated on opiates and have had some trippy experiences on high doses of Opana but nothing I would consider being ++++. Imo opiates lack the substance that makes a + experience. That is just me though. I wouldn't use that scale for dissociatives either. Maybe my take on the meaning of that scale is misconstrued.

 

Perhaps everyone has their own scale. I see just as much beauty and profundity in properly-utilized opioids as in properly used psychedelics. Although it is not the majority opinion, that is just how I feel. I go into psychoactive experiences with an open mind, and that is just how I evaluate things. I am not going to lie and downplay my transcendental experiences on opioids because it isn't "cool."

 

I'm not saying you are in the wrong. Sorry if it came off as so.

 

My apologies. I did not intend it to be directed at you. It is just something that I have noticed many psychonauts tend to say: That opioids hold no value in expanding the mind.

I am sorry you took it that way.

 

*bump* I'd just like to note that in Dirty Pictures, Shulgin himself describes a plus four as when "everything is under your control" and it can end up being frightening.

 

Interesting. Since I have had a "Plus Four" since I last posted here (on my last 2C-I trip about three months ago), I agree that your quote from Shulgin sums it up pretty much perfectly. I was frightend, but it ended up being incredibly transforming and promoted me to reach psychological insights that I had either resisted or simply not had the desire to obtain previously.

 

...the omega point ? or slight glimpses of the unmanifest ? they seem to get stronger every time I have them. It's like something in the corner of your eye that moves when you turn your head or you try to focus on it. But lately, I've been getting closer and closer. It's almost as if, and I can only speak for myself, I can unravel the universe in/with my mind.

I first started to experience this when I was a child. Through my teens I would have flashbacks of specific childhood moments, moments that seemed trivial at the time, rolling around in grass or sitting on a table staring out of a window. When I started taking acid and shrooms I was 17 and I felt that feeling again for the first time in years. Now I get it when I'm coming down from trips and in the peak of my workouts.

 

Never had a ++++ but I think I've had glimpses of that peak experience. Never been immersed into it but on my first acid trip a cosmic consciousness angle was "peeking through the clouds" although I couldn't dive into it fully.