please help me wrap my head around this...

ok, let me start off by saying... I don't know what I am exactly... nor do I care, I know my beliefs, my ethics, my morals, and the fact that despite whatever some church says... yes I'm a good person and don't need your approval. Infact in the recent years I've began studying many religions in depth and I haven't even chipped away at the pilar of knowledge I want to acquire. With that said my husband is of new born christian faith.. yes it poses it's problems, but we love eachother and we make it work... however a major point of conflict is the concept he believes in called "The Rapture". I know he truley belives in this concept... and I just can't believe in it and even have a problem with respecting it. The idea that one day all christians who have been saved by jesus will just *poof* up and disappear and leave all of us evil folks here to live out hell on earth. Ok.. I can except the idea that the *good* people will be saved and the *bad* people will have to live out hell on earth. So I asked him and his stepmom an extreme on this.... A man who raped and killed a 10 yr old child who has found jesus and is not 3 years later very religious, will he be saved? They said yes. Then I asked if a man who is generally a good person, gives to those who are in need, lives an honest life, provides for his family, etc.. however he doesn't know what he believes about god.. maybe he exists, maybe he doesn't. and again I asked Will he be saved? They said no. I can't understand or respect this concept. Please tell me if I have a correct understanding of this concept, if I've been misinformed, or if I have the correct understanding please give me the logic behind it.

 

Then don't, trust your emotions, it doesn't sound right and it doesn't make sense why a benevolent God would allow a good man to live all eternity in hell.

Having said that i do not believe in the Rapture or the 'bible' as a whole true story.

 

Beam me up, Scottie! I'm ready to leave this earth behind! But I'd settle for having the religious right beamed up, and wish them bon voyage. I'm afraid you do have a correct understanding of the absurd doctrine of the Raptures, and also the notion of "salvation through faith alone" carried to a revolting extreme. Believers in the Raptures claim that it can be traced to some of the early church fathers, but the originator seems to be a nineteenth century preacher named John Nelson Darby. True Believers in this idea think that some day, as you say, the real Christians will all be whisked away. If they're behind the wheel of a car, too bad for the non-Christian passengers and pedestrians. I think the belief is unfortunate in giving people the idea that they don't have to worry about international conflict, environmental problems, etc., because they won't be here and those "Left Behind" will have to deal with them in the Tribulations. Catholics, eastern Orthodox Christians, and "mainline" Protestants don't believe in this nonsense. You have to use a lot of imagination to get it out of the Bible. The idea of salvation through faith alone, started by Saint Paul, amplified by Saint Augustine, and adopted by Martin Luther as the cornerstone of the Protestant Reformation, does place the emphasis on what a person believes rather than on his or her actions or good will. According to this doctrine, a person who does not accept Christ as personal savior can't get to Heaven, no matter how kind, loving, and caring (s)he is. Again, not all Christians believe this or carry it to an extreme. I consider myself to be a Christian, but I feel the same way you do about both of these ideas, no offense to your boyfriend intended.

 

"Thou salt not kill"

 

To be "saved" is merely a realization in one's life that mistakes have been made.

From that day forward, one tries hard not to go back down those old roads.

You don't have to attach any religion to this. Its pretty plain.

If you believe in the traditional Christian path, things are not nearly as plain.


x

 

The reasoning supporting a 'Rapture' is 'What goes around comes around' if I'm not mistaken. This suggests that a rapture has already occurred and is described in Revelation where a third of the stars fled. The 'Law of diminishing returns' suggests that not all those who fled before will flee again, due to dissatisfaction.

A benevolent victor would allow the vanquished remnant to escape, that's the theory anyway, despite the 'spin'.

 

I don't think most Christians believe in a literal rapture as you describe. Personally I believe any rapture is ultimately the collective ascension of humanity through different facets which have come to different people in different forms (Jesus, Krishna, Dionysus, Mohammad, etc). I think that anyone finding Jesus and salvation through him wouldn't rape or murder, but if they did and later found Jesus and salvation, then yes, they can still be saved. Anyone can rise above their past transgressions. Change is possible and everyone can ultimately achieve salvation.

As for the good-intentioned person you mentioned, if they have the light in their heart then they may be saved, but if they do these good things for the wrong reasons, they may not achieve salvation in this life.

 

You're right to doubt the veracity of the xtian rapture because it leads to self-destruction, self-condemnation, self-deprecation, self-denial, self-failing and self-extermination.

I did the christian thing in the late 1970's to mid-80's, during which time I read Tim LaHayes rapture books that basically preached hellfire and brimstone for anyone not baptised or born again or christian or whatever crazy spin his cracked mind could come up with.
The whole rapture thing is solely based on the "very elect" phrases in the bible and references to the 144,000 of said elect..........and that commences a cascade of criticism of others and self as unworthy - all of which is not only highly judgemental (judge not lest ye be judged), but initiates a process of self-damnation that is very hard to stop because to actually BE raptured, you'll have to be ONE of the 144,000 out of the total current population of the earth as well as every person who has ever lived and died in all of time. So to be one of those 144,000, one would have to be perfect in the extreme, which brings questions about sexuality or any other natural human activity into the framework, such as - if you really enjoy your sexuality, are you being chaste as you are supposed to be in order to be a "good" xtian? Do you devote sufficient of your resources, financial and otherwise, to the disadvantaged?.....the list of natural failings quickly accumulates until you become entangled in awful guilt for not being perfect in god's eyes and image (and more importantly, in your own eyes!), that the only way out is to immerse further into the extremes of the religion, where one of three things will happen 1) you crack, 2) you get the hell out of there, 3) you resign to going to hell and burning with the sinners, even though you've done your level best.
Any way you look at it, xtianity rapture is no-win madness

 

It doesn't matter what you're religion is. What matters is that you're a good person. I'm not sure what protestant doctune says, but Vatican 2 finally added that to the catechism (why it took so long is a mystery to me). All this fuss about "Our Religion" and "Their Religion" does nothing but separates us further.
So you pretty much have the right idea.

 

"Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you."
-The Gospel of Thomas.

I cannot fully get behind a church that leaves out such wonderful things because leaves slack in their control. I cannot leave behind the religion that has such wonderful things. Remember that the church is not the religion. The church may be one of the farthest things from the religion. Read the Rapture prophesies, not the rapture books. Interpret. Know it's all been edited. Remember the Hindu's acknowledgment of a cycle. Because there's been creation, there will destruction. Since there's been destruction, there will be creation.

Feel your way through it, as that is the only way to know anymore. Don't blindly trust any church leader on television. They are often self-righteous. Trust yourself to know(after all, the kingdom of heaven is within you, so says the quote), and the kind (such as the hypothetical man you spoke of), and it will be alright.

Remember people believe in the Rapture, etc. because it is comforting to them.