at school we always have a rememberance day ceremony to commemorate the "heros" of wars and to honour them. but people see it and they dont get it, rememberance day should be learning from mistakes like war and seeing how muched weve fucked up our world with it. ad then there are those stupid poppies to say "thank you" to the veterans. grrr......sorry ive been keeping that bottles up and i needed to rant
Yea Dude,definetely hear what your saying.Not many people see it that way though,dont even stop to think how horrible war is.All the brainwashing of we have to fight for our "Freedom".They honor the vetrans that rape,pillage,burn children,torture *enemies and kill and kill etc.It's screwed up that most people don't stop to think much about it and blindly,obidiently,honor and basically worship the very goverment that is causing their demise.I find it hard to blame the vetrans,they may have done some good and they died for all this.They were just following orders just as much victims of the brainwashing as the ones who honor them blindly.
I dont think that there should be one day to remember mistakes....it should be remembered and taught everyday. But to remember those who have died.....dont get me wrong, Im no advocate for war, and I sure as hell aint a patriot, but I think that these people do deserve some respect and rememberance. They put their life on the line or died for something THEY believed in, just as much as we dont believe in their cause. War is an atrocity, but sometimes their is no choice, or as in the case of a few of my loved ones, they made a choice believing one thing, and were duped in the end by the government. They carry with them the scars, mental and physical. They went through something that we now are learning from, something that we hopefully will never get to experience, and for that they get my respect.
I hate war and violence at least as much as any of you...but... Canada (I see you're Canadian..) has been a lot better than other countries. We didnt get involved in Vietnam (or the government didnt, anyway...) and we stayed out of Iraq. Canada's involvement in World War II was without question justified. Canadians were the first peacekeepers and headed off a potential war during the Suez Crisis that would have killed a huge number of people. They recognized that the civilians are the real victims and to protect them. Afghanistan is bad but the Canadian military really hasnt been that bad. As soon as we were actually autonomous from Britain, we started doing (some) justified military action and staying out of bad ones. World War I was definitely not justified, but we had conscription and Canadians couldnt stay out. Korea wasnt good either. But we have a much better record than most other countries... Regardless, we still need to remember those who have died in wars. We should respect the people if not the cause. When thousands of 18 year olds die, we'd better fucking remember them. And to have a day to formally remember them is important. I felt the same way until I had a history teacher who made it really inspiring. He told us he really didnt like In Flanders Fields and had us read a different WWI poem that doesnt glorify war at all...I guess I'll post it here: Dulce Et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of disappointed shells that dropped behind. GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time; But someone still was yelling out and stumbling And floundering like a man in fire or lime.-- Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light As under a green sea, I saw him drowning. In all my dreams, before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning. If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,-- My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. Well, you get my point about Remembrance Day. Actually, it's originally called Armistice Day - it commemorates the END of the first world war when there was peace. My family never fought in any war, but as Jews in Europe, they would have all been dead if other countries didnt help...genocide is always worth fighting against no matter who or what. We should get out of Afghanistan and send peacekeepers to Darfur. We can and we aren't. That would military action that I could truly respect.
That could be a strong argument with some people steve.Of course I agree 100% with you being a Peace lover and also a huge John Lennon fan.LOL *I just found David Bowie doing a live version of Imagine as a tribute to John for myspace like 20 seconds ago that I just added.Nice to see favorable words bout' John. http://www.myspace.com/buster0345 Peace,
sorry this thing popped into my head and id like to share it: war is genocide if you think about it. genocide is the killing of one type of people. war is the killing of designated people (soldiers) against one another thus one type of people killing another type of people(from different countries)
No, war isn't genocide. Genocide has a specific definition. Genocide is the systematic extermination of a group (usually an ethnic group) in their entirety (in a basic sense...) In a war, soldiers are given weapons and told to go to the front lines to fight. Yes, they may well get shot down and if they don't they'll go kill other people. It's definitely mass murder and it's definitely horrible, but it's not genocide. But here's genocide: (I may not have all the details totally accurate but that's not the point.) In Nazi Germany, there was only one major uprising by the Jews which was in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1944. An enormous number of people were packed into a small space which was sealed off from the outside world by the Nazis and guarded by the SS. They were starving. When the uprising happened, the Jews were not sufficiently armed and could barely hold back the Nazis for the 63 days the conflict lasted. In the end, the Nazis captured 56,000 Jews, shot 7000 and took the rest to Treblinka where every single one was gassed with cyanide. Their hair was shaved off and their gold teeth were ripped out before their dead bodies were thrown into a mass oven. This was only one small area in the massive Holocaust all across Europe. That was genocide. Rwanda was genocide. Darfur is genocide. I totally see your point and I'm not saying that war isn't horrific and senseless, but genocide has a certain meaning and is much worse than war.
....So your saying what they did was a complete waste and we should have just let them exterminate the Jewsih race?
The Moroccan Racoon..... Im very excited to see that you posted Wilifred Owen's poem. I'm also a fan of Siegfried Sassoon (Im sure you are familiar with him, too) On Passing the New Menin Gate Who will remember, passing through this Gate, the unheroic Dead who fed the guns? Who shall absolve the foulness of their fate,- Those doomed, conscripted, unvictorious ones? Crudely renewed, the Salient holds its own. Paid are its dim defenders by this pomp; Paid, with a pile of peace-complacent stone, The armies who endured that sullen swamp. Here was the world's worst wound. And here with pride 'Their name liveth forever,' the Gateway claims. Was ever an immolation so belied As these intolerably nameless names? Well might the Dead who struggled in the slime Rise and deride this sepulchre of crime. (The Menin Gate is a war memorial outside Brussles where 54, 889 soldier's names are engraved)
Do something a little different, remember those who were killed prosting the Vietnam war. The kent State murders happened on May 4th, four very young kids were killed buy are own National Guard ( thanks guys ) One of them was from were I live, she is now at rest in a cemetery about 10mins from me, she was only 19 years old, her name is Allison Krause, this May I would like all of you to say a prayer, light a candle. or ring a bell, for her, better yet just say her name and remember, if you do that it is like she is still alive, sad she died protesting a war that I had to fight and I made it, she did not, she hurt no one she did nothing wrong, she just stood up for what she thought was right, and got gunned downed for it, what a waste. Please think of her and the rest on May 4th. Thank you. Remember May 4, 1970 Peace
I think that's a damn good idea. On May 4th, I will say a prayer, and light a candle, and say the names of all the victims. Killed: Allison Krause; fatal left chest wound Jeffrey Glen Miller; shot through the mouth - killed instantly Sandra Lee Scheuer; fatal neck wound William Knox Schroeder; fatal chest wound Wounded: Thomas Mark Grace; struck in left ankle Joseph Lewis Jr.; hit twice in the right abdomen and left lower leg John R. Cleary; upper left chest wound Alan Canfora; hit in his right wrist Dean Kahler; back wound fracturing the vertebrae - permanently paralyzed from the chest down Douglas Wrentmore; hit in his right knee James Dennis Russell; hit in his right thigh from a bullet and in the right forehead by birdshot - both wounds minor Robert Stamps; hit in his right buttock Donald Scott MacKenzie; neck wound With tears in my eyes.... Peace, poor_old_dad
wasnt that the event Neil Young wrote Ohio? good song, but im sorry im getting sidetracked i will definitly remember ...and captain cannabis i dont know the best way to prevent those things, though partly it was because many jews were wealthy and germany was struck hard by the depression and because of great unfairness in the treaty of Versailles. in fact thats why i came to this forum, for some help in ideas
That's an amazing poem. I actually wasn't familiar with Sassoon, so thanks! I'm reading some of his stuff and I'll have to go find some more. My dad's probably got some books.
Thank you friend. It is the right thing to do, they fought that war as much as I, and their toll was heavy, I made it through, Allison and the others did not, and I want them to be remembered so badly, They were just kids, victims of goverment gone MAD, and yes we should all have tears in our eyes, I know I do every time I think of her, I wish we could spread the word beyond this post but I'm not sure how to, they should be honored above those of who fought that war, they knew it was unjust and tryed to end it, please never forget them. Peace.
Ahh...happy searching! Owens and Sassoon were both in WWI together. When both were wounded, they were in the same hospital room for a good while where they each rapped about poetry. They both went back into the war, and this is the kicker, Owens died one week before the war ended. He was around 19-20 years old. And thanks to all who mentioned others who have died and deserve rememberance. I most definately will invite a bell to sound and send smoke and prayers for those.
There were a few of Sassoon's poems in the Norton Anthology of Modern Poetry, which I had borrowed from my dad... (seems almost ironic that I had put it on the shelf right between Kerouac and Ginsberg...) It's certainly some of the most profoundly horrific depictions of war I've ever read. So I'll definitely have to read more. It's really interesting what I read about his life and seems to make it just that much more tragic... Thanks for introducing me to it!
