Retaining your childhood innocence?

so the way that i see things, as a child we are more like a blank slate -- soft, and innocent. as we grow older and have more experiences we become hardened, more bitter. we gain more of a distinctive identity as our life experiences leave their impressions on us.

now what i was wondering is: is this a bad thing? should a person try to not let their life experiences impress upon them, and retain their childhood innocence? or is the fact that the experiences impress things upon us and make us more hardened a good thing?

it always kind of felt like acid -- if i had become 'hardened' -- cracked open my hardened exterior and gave me a second chance. i kind of feel like it is a good thing to retain your childhood innocence, ignorance, and foolishness. but i was wondering what other people thought about it.

 

i believe that it is a good thing. to me it opens up my eyes to what i've been missing. it helps me connect with others easier, because i'm a less bitter person after having a good trip. i can just laugh and respect other peoples views easier.

 

I think there is a happy medium... not enough innocence can make one angry and overly bitter and overly untrusting

but too much innocence is naive and disables someone from protecting themselves

 

I think it'd be a mistake to define your life like that, like a timeline with 'childhood innocence' at one end and 'mature bitterness' at the other end. It neglects a whole range of emotions and factors. You say that 'experiences impress things upon us and make us more hardened', but I don't agree with this. Taking LSD is an experience, does it make us more 'hardened', by your definition? I don't think it's the experiences that make us 'hardened' or not, it's the attitude we have toward such experiences and our mindset. If you believe that your experiences make your more hardened, then maybe they do.

 

"Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven."

 

it isn't really the experiences that make us hardened, but rather what we take from them. what i was wondering is whether it is a good thing to let our experiences harden us, or whether we should try to hold on to our childhood innocence.

after all as we become hardened it is merely conditioning for life. we learn what to do, what not to do, and well more often than not that makes us more bitter... but also benefits ourselves more.

but on the other end if we retain our innocence we might get screwed over alot more, but nothing can match the happiness of it. being a fool is fun.

one thing that this reminds me of is when i was watching a movie a while ago about vietnam. most of the soldiers there became hardened by the horrors of war, one even wrote that he is just an empty shell now. but there was one soldier, who emanated happiness. he didn't let the war impress upon him, he retained all of happiness. but he was killed. would he have lived if he had let the war impress upon him like it did everyone else? maybe.

I embrace my desire to
Feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow
To feel inspired to fathom the power, to witness the beauty,
To bathe in the fountain,
To swing on the spiral

you might be right ladybrunette. but think about all of those experiences that you had before you gained that small level of hardening, completely ignorant. the times that you didn't protect yourself, and were hurt because of that. was it really a bad thing? wouldn't you have so much more strength and happiness if you were able to be knocked down time and time again, and just keep getting back up -- without wanting to avoid being knocked down again.

 

I reject your dualistic view of humans

Child vs Non-Child

No thanks. It's much simpler, and much more complex, than that.

By breaking up reality into 2 as you often do, you have these problems.

child, non child

good, evil

deserve, not deserve

when does it end?

 

yea the world is not black and white

 

Childhood innocence reflects on the eyes.
That kind of beauty is very painful, especially when you have your own first child.
Psychedelics dont even come close to the emotions conjured within when you hold your infant child in your arms for the first time.
The reason we dont hold onto innocece ourselves is because we physically can not, it would kill you. It's perfectly balanced and as you let go of innocence, it becomes admired. Without being hardened, innoence would mean nothing. Such is the way of every discovery.

 

I would say that my son's eyes are brighter to my own than the Sun itself, and you can only look for so long before it overwhelms.

 

exactly what i was getting at. childhood innocence is painful, very painful. but that pain is sometimes beautiful. some of my fondest memories are from when i let my guard down and was hurt because of that.

i wasn't exactly saying that there is only innocent and hardened, i was just remarking on how blissful it is to reach that extreme end of innocence. to "weap like a widow" and then just bounce back as if nothing had ever happened.

 

I hear you, but what I meant was that innocence is painful
to us, as observers of childrens innocence that we have lost.
I dont remember it being particularly painful in myself as
a child, just confusing

 

I dunno Desos. Why do you say that we automatically become bitter as we grow older? I think we gain the ability to discern more effectively, and are able to understand things better, and perhaps more sinister motives people may have, but why would that make us ultimately bitter?

And it's funny, to think about innocence. Ask any adult you know, and they will tell you innocence is one of the most beautiful and cherished things on the planet, yet doesn't anyone remember when you were a child, and how you couldn't WAIT to grow up?

We always want what we don't have.



-Besides, I think the majority of humanity is more innocent than they think-

 

You raise a good point Josh.
Though that's the futile nature of the pursuit of happyness, if you have to stop and define it, you arent experiecing it. Just like love, to those who are in it, there is no way to explain, to those who dont have it, the discussion runs in circles forever.

 

im not saying that we are all ultimatly bitter neodude, just that as we have more experiences, we slowly grow more and more bitter. we gain more sinister motives, we no longer help that person in need because the last time we did it we got screwed over, we discern against things that maybe we might not have before.

i see what you mean by always wanting the opposite of what we have and i agree. but i was just wondering: is it wrong to grow more bitter, or should a person try to hold onto their innocence as much as possible?

 

I want my innocense back

 

I disagree with all of that. Experiencing things doesn't necessarily mean being more bitter, and I don't think bitter is the opposite of innocent. Think about the first time you tried LSD. It was a brand new experience, but did it leave you bitter? No. Did it leave you innocent? No, because you are now knowledgeable about something you previously were not.

So, I have to disagree with the notion that experiences make us bitter. There are plenty of people who get screwed over time and time again by other people and yet hold onto their trust and acceptance of people.

Wrong, in relation to what?

There isn't anything inherently wrong with being bitter. I think when people attach a negative attribute to "bitterness" they are actually isolating the actions that a bitter attitude cause people to do, rather than the bitterness itself.

It seems like a tedious distinction, but I think it's important.

At any rate, I believe the more you try to hold onto your innocence, the more you will lose it. Innocence is innocence because there is no conscious effort required, it's a completely natural and carefree state. Trying to superficially hang onto it will doubtlessly be the downfall of it.

We are what we are. But for me at least, the opposite state of innocence definatly isn't being bitter. I would say it is experienced or knowledgeable.

 

well it really depends on what we take from the experiences whether we become bitter or not, i was just using that as an example because that is what would happen if we were to let them make us bitter... but on the other end we can hold on to our innocence and not change and not become bitter. or we can choose a middle path.

maybe i should have used a different word from bitter(i just couldnt think of anything that fits what i was trying to say better, but if you have a better word go ahead), but you understand what i mean. bitter seems to have a negative stigma already attached to it; i was just wondering if it is a good thing to let our life experiences mold and shape us -- to become more knowledgeable -- or whether it is better to remain like a child -- ignorant and happy. that is what i meant by wrong: which is the better path to take?

maybe it is better to become aware of everything, become knowledgeable, but still remain pure inside -- as a child -- and not let things weigh you down.

interesting. maybe it is impossible to consciously hold onto our innocence, because that would stem from a bitterness towards bitterness... ironically. haha. and now innocence isn't really innocence if it is really bitterness, is it? :rofl:

 

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that's all there is to it. the day you learn to stop weaving these verbal webs is the day you will realize life is so much simpler than you thought.

 

well you know what they say, ignorance is bliss....but only temporarily.

I think when we truly become aware of something's real nature, then there is no choice other than to remain pure inside.