Rumminations On The Big Bang

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Meagain, Aug 21, 2015.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Now, thinking about the Big Bang....

    In a nut shell the Big Bang theory tells us that about 13.8 billion years ago the universe banged into existence from a very high density state of being.
    Before the Big Bang according to Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose nothing existed, including space, time, matter, or energy - nothing.

    So if this is true then we can't think of the Big Bang as happening 13.8 billion years ago, as there was no time until it occurred. So there can be no starting point for the 13.8 billion year time period.

    Further, time as a product of space is relative, according to position and rate of travel. We tend to think of time as linear but relativity theory has shown that time depends on observation. Your past may be my present or future depending on our relative positions and velocities.

    What this means is that Hubble's Law, which is used to measure the expansion of the universe after the big Bang, is merely a relative measurement based upon our present position and velocity. Change our position and/or velocity and Hubble's Law could be found to show the exact opposite of expansion, that is compression of the universe or at least give us an infinite variety of differing dates for its origin.

    This is all because of our habit of viewing time as being made up of three separate elements, past, present, and future. But upon careful analysis, which I won't go into here, we find that the past does not exist except as a "memory", the future never arrives; and even the present can not be tied down but continues to slip away, even as I type.

    So we find that the notion of time being a product of the Big Bang turns out to be an erroneous concept which is merely an artifact of conscious observation. (And I won't get into space here either.)

    What this all means is that The Big Bang, that is the origin of the universe is not something that has occurred in the past...but is a continual process of conscious observation.

    The Big Bang is occurring continually.

    ______

    Thank you for your attention...I will await the awarding of my Nobel Prize.
     
    MeAgain, Aug 21, 2015
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    3 people like this.
  3. Riotgirl18902

    Riotgirl18902 Banned

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    big bang is nothing less than a description of a miracle. something of unfathomable potential suddenly emerged out of nothing for no reason...
     
    Riotgirl18902, Aug 21, 2015
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  5. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

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    There is no such thing as time without conscientious thought. Like the bible, the big bang theory is an attempt to define God.
     
    rjhangover, Aug 22, 2015
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  7. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    If time is a product of space, then wouldn't that make sense to say the Universe began 13.8 million years (or whatever the figure is) ago? Assuming that space also formed at the time.
     
    guerillabedlam, Aug 22, 2015
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  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yeah, except that time/space is relative to position and velocity so the actual span that is measured differs based upon where the measurement takes place and at what relative speed. Also everything is relative to everything else, so what is the bases of the observation other than our present location and velocity relative to.....what fixed entity???
     
    MeAgain, Aug 22, 2015
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  11. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    So if everything from the supposed big bang point is expanding, will future inhabitants(if there are such) eventually look up and see no other stars or planets except those that are revolving around our sun. In other words--an empty void where we are more alone than ever?
     
    scratcho, Aug 22, 2015
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  13. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    Enentually, yes. All stars will have burned out, and the last black holes evaporated due to hawking radiation. The universe will reach a maximum state of entropy where everything is the same uniform (very cold) temperature as the universe continues to expand for about a googel years.
     
    AceK, Aug 22, 2015
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  15. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    It seems reasonable to assume that we are talking about the Big Bang from the perspective of our understanding of time on Earth, that seems like nitpicking we would apply this in any other sense. Pretty much ANY test done with time on an individual's perspective would have variable responses based on whether we did it on Earth, Mercury or Neptune, or even under different conditions on Earth, but we still find clocks and temporal measurements useful.

    I think the event or 'entity' to which the age of the universe refers to is the Planck epoch which a search says that it occurs 10-43 seconds into the Big Bang, before that the 'universe' May have been in a purely quantum state, where talking about time in any sense as we know it would be meaningless, to my understanding.

    Yes, I've heard it suggested the sky will become more bare in a really far off future. I'm not sure the sun will last long enough for the sky to be completely empty but the cosmology in a few hundred million years will differ from ours if there are still People on Earth.
     
    guerillabedlam, Aug 22, 2015
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  17. rjhangover

    rjhangover Senior Member

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    New stars are being born all the time.
     
    rjhangover, Aug 22, 2015
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  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Well, if we want to really know about the nature of the universe and how it operates we can't claim that our parochial frame of reference is the only true one that there is. We measure the origin of the universe from our current perspective. But if we were in a different position from the one we are now in the origin would occur at a different time relative to our own time. So we say that the Planck epoch occurred at 10 to the power of -43 seconds, so what? Time is still relative whether it's a million years or 10 to the power of -43 seconds. What's the difference?
     
    MeAgain, Aug 22, 2015
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  21. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    The only other non-theological alternative is infinity right? But then what's the fixed entity in that situation to say anything about the universe? Isn't it impossible for something to complete an infinite number of tasks?

    Maybe the issue is our limited (compared to other dimensions) understanding of time.
     
    guerillabedlam, Aug 22, 2015
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  23. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    Exactly---When geodesic math was applied to Einstein's Theory of Relativity and it was understood that a fourth dimension was needed, it was assumed that this fourth dimension was time. However it actuallydescribes the realm of light more than anything else. Time happens at the speed of light. It is our experience of the fourth dimension by which we, existing at sublight speed, experience time.

    Therefore, to get back to Meagain's question---time is relative to what...? In my own philosophy----time is relative to the timeless fourth dimension. It doesn't matter what our velocity is (and therefore how warped space-time becomes), it especially doesn't matter what our position is, one existent is always relative to another existent in the physical dimensions, but time regardless of the perspective is always relative to the fourth dimension. Thus the speed of light is the one universal constant, the speed of light being the speed of time tells us that while we may percieve time as relative to each observer, there is only one single now relative to the fourth dimension.
     
    Mountain Valley Wolf, Aug 23, 2015
    #12

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