Sarah Palin believes Iraq war is 'a task from god'

This is potential US Vice President Sarah Palin before she became McCain's running mate addressing her church in Alaska:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k
(from about 3:40) The Iraq war is "a task that is from god", and it is "God's plan".

This woman may be the Vice President of the most powerful country in the world, and given the age of McCain, there's a fair chance she may even become unelected President, and she believes military foreign policy comes from the fairies at the bottom of the garden... this is truly horrifying.

Could a leader who had such absurd views get elected in this country? Blair kept his superstitions private, knowing that it would make him seem crazy to the British public and almost certainly damage his chances of re-election.

Why is this sort of madness acceptable? How do we respond to patent irrationality in people who hold positions of power?


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNulPSqaP1eyysv8ENJWhk0ZSrPgD92VJ0D00

 

To play devil's advocate for a moment, since I naturally agree with your position, should we have a similar response to those who invoke the idea of god to speak out against war, such as Rowan Williams for example. Or those who use religion to justify charitable acts, or even progressive political struggle, as is the case with Catholic Liberation Theology? Should we be equally critical when the fairies at the bottom of the garden instruct people in positions of influence to do good, as when they instruct them to do bad?

 

hell, i guess anyone can say anything is god's plan, fate, blah blah blah. it seems a ridiculous thing to say, to me, and i'm a believer.

 

Yes, but we need to separate the things people believe from the reasons they believe them. I may agree with Rowan Williams' position on the war but if he were to invoke superstition to bolster this position I would suggest he has a bad reason for being against it (I'm not at all sure he does this). I may think the actions of certain Christian charities are laudable but if they are doing them for no reason but faith then I have no problem in saying they are doing it for the wrong reasons.

I think we need to introduce a "conversational intolerance" towards these absurdities, in the words of Sam Harris, in order to point out wherever we can that certain ways of thinking, certain kinds of irrationality are unacceptable. This is particularly true in public life, it is simply despicable that someone so close to the Vice Presidency should hold these kinds of childish views. But it also extends right the way down to you and me, wherever people have bad reasons for thinking certain things or lack basic skills in critical thinking we need to pick them up on it and refuse to tolerate bad reasons for belief, as distinct from the ethical or political beliefs themselves.

If someone claimed the fairies at the bottom of the garden told them to do something we would laugh them out of the city, or try to get them sectioned, and they would certainly never be able to hold a position of high office. Why should it be any different no matter which invisible agent they invoke? I tend to think in this country a politician saying something like Sarah Palin has said would be forced to resign pretty quickly...

 

I actually had a patient who did believe there were fairies at the bottom of his garden

 

Maybe sectioning is the answer....

 

She believes war is part of gods plan? what the fuck!?

 

I could section you...... I need to stop trying to section everyone!

 

Ironically having a religious loony on the Republican ticket, who is being told to do things by goblins and sprites, makes them more likely rather than less likely to get elected. It's a shame we can't section the majority of the population of America...

 

Er, aren't we forgetting about free speech here? Your position, or Sam Harris' which you are quoting seems to be somewhat 'faithist' to coin a phrase. Not everybody is an atheist, just as not everyone is a believer. One could say it was equally absurd of Norman Tebbit to tell the unemployed to 'get on their bike', but that's not to say he didn't have the right to say it. At the end of the day, politicians are elected, so if that's what the people want that's what they get.

 

America has been walking backwards for almost a decade

 

Few would suggest people don't have the right to say whatever they want, so that's a straw man of yours. The point is that if I think Norman Tebbit said something idiotic then it's my duty to say so in order to make clear that that kind of stupidity is not acceptable from a public figure in a position of power. Harris' notion of "conversational intolerance" is about applying the same standards to religious beliefs rather than ringfencing them as off-limits for criticism. If I think somebody is making an absurd claim with no good reason it's my duty to raise awareness that their views are idiotic, or in the case of Sarah Palin, obscenely dangerous...

 

Well, I just got the impression from your quote that you were suggesting faith-related political expressions should not be tolerated - as in banned, or cracked down on in some way. Of course, everyone has the right to criticise another's opinion, but why say a faith statement is 'unacceptable'? That seems too strong to me. As an aside, I do find Palin's claim ironic, since Al Qu'eeda also have God on their side apparently

 

Faith is fine its just the crap they read in the book and repeat verbatim as if its something significant that is the problem.

Anyone who can suspend rationality to believe in creationism is an unnacceptable person to have in a position of power, they can obviously choose to believe whatever takes their fancy rather than decide matters on the facts presented.

 

I meant "unacceptable" in the same way I hold most of what BNP members say to be unacceptable. It's quite another thing to talk about banning them from the political process or stopping them running for election. I support absolutely their right to think and say what they like, but at the same time I don't think we as a society ought to tolerate it, I think they should be held up to intense criticism whenever they make an appearance. These two things are not contradictory. Sorry, I thought that core assumption was implicit

One of the ways we set about making these things unacceptable is to pick people up whenever they say something irrational or unsupported by any factual substance, just like the way we pick people up on racist prejudice whenever we see it. By degrees we can raise awareness that these kinds of views and ways of thinking have no place in our public life.

 

I am praying to God now that McCain doesn't win. And this is dangerous thinking, people using God to justify what they want, it's so dangerous and backward thinking.

 

Ugh, everything that has come from the Republican party of late scares the life out of me.

I won't even get into all my dear mother had to say on the subject when I talked to her last.

It's sad when one party is touting God as being their reason for doing all these well quite frankly unGodly things (if you believe in God that is). And the other candidate is losing favour in the polls because he is not creating slanderous ads against the other candidates.

So basically, this leads me to believe that most Americans only believe what they see on TV.

As I told my mother, if McCain/Palin wins, I'm definitely changing my nationality because wow ... how much worse could it get? I hate to think.

People are afraid to vote for Obama because he hasn't been around Washington long enough to know his policies, but at least he seems to have stood firm behind his beliefs not waffle around like McCain has done.

8 or 4 years ago I would have considered voting for McCain as an alternative. The man talked about being pro-abortion rights, and pro-gay rights. He said he was anti-war, and anti-torture (having been a POW himself). Now he's actually running for President and all of a sudden he is anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-war, and pro-torture. So which is the real man?

watch this (to the end as you see him going back on everything he used to say he stood for)

 

and how come every time i read the thread title i read:

"South Park believes the Iraq war is 'a task from God'."

 

who cares what she thinks ? I think she's kinda sexy.

Peace

 

Lest we forget--never underestimate the ignorance of the american people.An ignorant populace is a compliant populace and that's why the education system has been neglected here.Ignorance seemingly has morphed into stupididy.