Here is an excellent parody created by Greenpeace about the oil spill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMQCj9UHCpM"]YouTube- How to Clean Up an Oil Spill - Scamwow! Tune in to see just how sleezy oil company executives and lawyers really are!
Hi Chris Some loaded questions here. My short answer is NO, but then have I, and my short answer to that would have to be NO. A government is just people some are good some are bad some are shades of both, I’ve meet people who want to get into politics who genuinely seem to want to help people, I meet bureaucrats, civil servants that genuinely seem to want to help people, I’ve even meet concerned police officers that genuinely seem to want to help people. The problem is often political reality, I think the right leaning government now in power in the UK are pursuing some very dangerous policies but the thing is if there was an election tomorrow I think the result wouldn’t be that different. I think two years down the line when the chickens have come home to roost then people will probably be baying for change but not now.
A quite interesting response. Should we expect the President to be more concerned than we are ourselves? For example, the people in the Gulf states are quite upset about this oil spill, yet not upset enough to stop drilling, or even to sell their gas guzzling SUVs. When you look at Obama's policies, he has much more concern than the American people do. How do we get away from using oil when half of the nation is yelling "drill baby drill?" The president wants all of us to have health care, but, a large percentage of us think a human life isn't worth the price of a doctor's visit. And when half of us think it's more important for the CEO to make a hundred million a year than for the janitor to make enough to feed his family, how does the President overcome that attitude? We expect the President to stop illegal immigration, yet we are the ones inviting them here with the promise of jobs. Before criticizing the President and Congressmen, we should take a hard look at ourselves as a nation. After having bricks thrown through their windows, being spit on and called niggers, and having their lives and the lives of their families threatened, why do you expect our representatives to really care? .
Tough to say... are we allowed to consider the deregulated predatory corporate environment he inherited when he took office? There's some pretty purposeful over reporting of BP's culpability on the disaster and while I do admit they bear a portion of the responsibility I see a conspicuous lack of attention paid to Transocean who owned and operated Deepwater Horizon... as well as lax oversight and deregulation of such operations by the previous administration paving the way for what has happened. There is absolutely no question in my mind that the federal government couldn't give a flying fuck about the citizens... at least those not rich enough to contribute mountains of money on a regular basis. It appears that their attitude toward the rest of us is that we are simply holding what's already their money. the challenge is to find a way to tax it away from us all the while working to convince us that it's for our own good. Voting boils down to opting between two sub-groups of the same criminal organization. Our bottom line will be the same either way- whether it be via a mountain of new social programs and entitlements necessitating a repressive tax structure or it's the bastard spawn of a no holds barred deregulatory environment fostering a predatory marketplace under the guise of growing the economy and create jobs--- either way the aim is to separate us from "their" money. The notion that any candidate represents change would be laughable if it weren't so blatantly insulting.... which brings us to... I think most members of congress should be tried for high treason. There's been such a stampede to trample the constitution that the rhetoric about protecting it is as laughable as the act of voting for the clowns who spew the rhetoric. An industrialized economy where people essentially depend on an employer meting out rations of money to be able to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves has absolute control over their survival... who amongst us would be able to manage a garden and hunt to sufficiently feed their family year round without having to shell out money at a grocery store? Hell, even if you can hunt. you'll need to buy bullets. We have become dependent on an infrastructure in order to survive. this is what gives the criminals who pretend to represent us the power to garnish our wages and shell the money over to greedy banks. This the organization that governs us and says it cares about us is the same entity that allowed banks to account for their solvency the speculative value of their investments, which included toxic derivative packages composed of ill-conceived mortgage agreements signed by people who had no business buying a home- who were lured into the arrangement by a temporary rate of interest whose presence was necessary for them to make good with the payments. This was Bush's "era of home ownership" which was a cornerstone of his re-election campaign in '04... the nuts and bolts of which were central components in the current economic crisis. Simple math might have been able to predict the collapse but the disclosure was in mountains of paperwork... kind of like the way government writes legislation... the disclosure is there for sure- to anyone who can dig it up and decipher it. The M.O. is too similar to ignore.... too much of a sector of our economy (banking and investment) colluded in a giant fraud over too long of a time for me to believe that the government wasn't in on it.... from BOTH sides of the aisle. I did.
If the govt really gave a damn, the 1st signs would show up in abysmal unemployment issues we,re going thru. It seems that many companies use the word "outsourse" as just a different way to say "greed"- I retired early, but my postion is now in Korea- The company told us they lost 15 million in 2008-09. The fact is that they really made 25 million- -after making 40 million in 2006-07. I dont follow the math- They still made 25 mil- just not 40 mil- Its not like they lost a dime. This is a private family owned cable manufactoring business out of Germany. There answer was to lay off 10% of the workforce-and outsourse the assembly division(my division) to Korea- If they just hung on -and worked as a 25 million $$ company - they wouldve been back to were they wanted to be in a few years, without putting long time loyal employees on the unemployment line. The days of jobs in the private sector with big salaries, full benefits, and pensions are over. We’ve all seen where those kinds of jobs get you as a business owner — in Bankruptcy Court or surviving on government welfare like GM and Chrysler. Or in the case of government itself — completely insolvent, but surviving by ripping off taxpayers and fraudulently running printing presses at the Fed all day and night to print money by the trillions. Unfortunately, small businesses don’t have the power to impose taxes or print money. So unlike government, we’ll just have to cut employees and run lean and mean. So does the govt care or give a damn about the people- I would say NAY! (Except for a few nice sound bites that sound good around election time- - they really dont give a fuck about small business, keeping private sector businesses in this country via tax breaks, or some kind of incentive to stay put It is truely a sad situation jjack
The system encourages just that... the expectation that an individual is going to make significant changes is cultivated in voters. In Connecticut we have a number of races including a Senate seat. There are the usual promises of change, of putting focus on jobs- yadda yadda and what strikes me is that despite repeated proof otherwise enough people choose to believe the campaign rhetoric that the system that serves only the government is assured to remain in place for the foreseeable future. We have a first term hopeful for the Senate, Linda McMahon who among other things is pledging to "clean up Washington" Funny hoe ignorant sheep really expect that a junior Senator is going to make one iota of difference- accepting for the sake of argument the premise that she is sincere about this ridiculous pledge. So much attention is focused on Republican versus Democrat that most people still believe that somehow flipping that joybuzzer of ex-incumbency is a reliable means of effecting change despite decade upon decade of proof otherwise. The "change we can believe in" that has come about in this presidential term has come in the form of a shiny new and expensive entitlement in the form of government mandated health care that assures the significant increase in our tax burden and lacks any assurances of cost control- this after printing trillions of dollars and throwing the money away at the economic sector that was at the epicenter of the current economic mess... with bipartisan support. We, the people have become lazy, expecting the government to be the agent of change- and to come to the rescue in all manner of calamity. That rescue comes at a huge price... the price is not only in the form of money but in the form of lost liberties. We've already forfeited our voice.
Please do tell, what liberties have we lost? Betcha can't name one. . edit: I've been hearing this from the Tea Party for a while and I've been asking this question for months. I have yet to get an answer. After living for over 6 decades I just can't see any freedoms I have lost. I get up when I want, do what I want and go to bed when, where and with whom I want. The only freedom I could ask for is the right to shoot a few of my neighbors, a right that one should gain after living for 60 years. .
I guess I stepped into that one didn't I? Having gone around in my head with this I find myself continually blurring the distinction between liberties and rights... a word I might have been better advised to use in light of the tendency for regulars in this forum to demand justification for assertions made by non-political junkies who haven't the time nor inclination to do volumes of research to back up what is posted. First for the sake of argument I'll define "liberties" as being synonymous with "freedoms". The NSA maintains a no-fly list which can potentially curtail my freedom to travel within the countries borders... economic (job) realities (limited vacation times) demand that I use air travel should I wish to visit the west coast while economic realities (money) put air travel out of my reach. You could say I'm free to find a better paying job but in reality, exercising that freedom will most likely remove what monetary resources I have in a fruitless job search on the premise that I give up my current job to seek a better one. Of course there's the immigration checkpoints near our borders where it is the discretion of the officer stopping me and checking my papers as to whether I'm free to go. I'm sure that if my assertions that the federal government is a criminal organization that is destroying the constitutional basis for our confederation and therefore is operating outside the law thereby forfeiting their "right" to enforce laws and collect taxes come to light then I would be branded a terrorist bearing close scrutiny. Would that fit under my right to free speech.. no wait, we're talking about liberties, not rights... I'm free to vote for who I want- except in doing that I'm throwing away what some vociferously argue is my only bit of power in this system- to which I laugh... I'm really free to choose from a list of candidates groomed by the system ensuring that no substantive change will occur. If I'm to protest, I have freedom of speech- except I need to take out a permit to protest which is subject to denial- or approval in a manner that ensures as small an audience as possible. Of course I can write a letter to the editor of my local paper- which they can print or refuse to at their discretion... and they are free to edit as they see fit. It has been demonstrated to my satisfaction that news outlets- papers, and television, are corporately owned and managed so as for editorial content there is no real freedom of the press as in reality their job is to promote the political stance of their corporate ownership which empowers them to paint political movements any way they see fit pursuant to their own interests which are arguably in conflict with mine. Yes, I have the liberty to strive for economic independence in a way analogous to being free to reach up and put my palm prints on lunar soil... physical, spatial realities hold the moon well out of my reach the way soulless market realities keep fiscal independence beyond my grasp. I'm kept hooked on money which is the only real way I can use to feed, clothe, and shelter myself because I have not been educated to self sustain- property ownership and hunting regulations/gun laws take those ideals well out of reach. It's arguable that none of this is really all that new and I cannot argue with that... it has been a reality- though in the last few decades we have allowed ourselves, our security to be more subject to market and corporate whims it seems- and our non-participation in politics as a whole results in us not at all understanding how corporate influence has supplanted what little voice we had exercised and how our involvement in the system is limited to voting for their list of candidates then shutting up and paying our taxes when the next group of puppets are installed. If the government follows through in making it mandatory for people to buy health insurance then we will not be at liberty to use what we've earned as we see fit. It's tough to see myself as enjoying any liberty when I see the corporate rule that has taken over the representative voice in our system eyes me not as a person but a carbon emitting holder of a tiny bit of their cash. I see myself as free to look over my shoulder, free to carefully select my words lest I offend a group that has been given disproportionate power to add negative value to words I may speak or write. I live in a supposed land of the free that prohibits discrimination against every subset and minority group in the population except for the one I belong to. Perhaps I should bask in the appreciative glow that can only be the product of having never lost any liberty. In order to survive in this economic system I have little choice but to submit to the curtailing my liberties in order that I may take my insignificant place in an economic structure created and run by the same corporate entities that have bought their way into the government that SAYS it represents my interests. It is the economic system that enslaves us... and its trappings are what keeps the masses transfixed on what is ultimately unimportant in the scheme of things. The problem is that most folks are fooled into thinking there's more importance with the lives of celebrity train wrecks and the goings-on in the latest so-called reality TV series than in what their elected official is proposing and debating on our tax dollar. There's no popular demand for plain English clarification of what's in the next legislation aiming to become a tax funded expansion of the bureaucracy. As long as what my tax fund do not represent my interests and the burden they place on me keeps me from achieving a measure of economic independence then how can I see myself as free? In word, all our liberties are intact but in practice there are precious few if any we can count on.
I was really just expecting a list and I don't expect volumes of research. If you have an opinion you should be able to express why you hold it. That should suffice for at least the beginning of a discussion. agreed Would you rather that they let anyone on the plane who wants to board, regardless of what's in their shoes or underwear? I've never been able to fly on a private Lear Jet either. At one time one had to take off for a couple of years to visit the west coast by wagon train. The thing is, you are not required to participate in this or any other culture. You could move to a remote area and live off of the land. Your participation in the culture is a freely made choice, but the culture is what it is with conditions over which you have no control. The same can be said of any police officer anywhere. Would you rather give the same unfettered freedom of movement that you seem to want to anyone, regardless of their intentions, which may be to blow up buildings. I think you just did that, and if you are correct, you have been branded a terrorist. Let me know how that works out. I think your perception may be a bit myopic. Votes do count, candidates do matter and change does occur, just in my lifetime, a lot. Funny thing, you are expressing your freedom of speech, right here, right now. I've written probably a hundred letters to the editor in my life, all printed unedited except one, a sharp criticism of the local Sheriff. The editor refused to print it, I pressed the issue and they ended up printing a front page story. This is a whole nuther topic, but in short, I disagree. A shrink would have a field day analyzing this paragraph alone. In a nutshell, you have defeated yourself before you even begin any venture. The problem lies in your own statement: our non-participation in politics as a whole. If you get sick and cannot afford a doctor, doesn't your liberty die with you? Those who do not have health insurance now are the ones who are making it so damned expensive for those who do. Whether you like it or not, you are part of a society with certain rights and liberties..., and responsibilities, one of which is paying your fair share. When you don't pay for health care and depend on the emergency room for your health care, everyone else pays your bills. The only group left without protections is the gay community, and that is changing fast. The next decade will be your time. As for the rest of this paragraph, it appears to me that you are causing your own grief. Despite the problems and corporate control, I don't feel anything other than free to do just what I want, within my means. You have enslaved yourself. Your trying to say that you have no freedom and are enslaved by the economic system because you cannot afford to fly jet planes across the country and live in the lap of luxury. If it wasn't for the economic system, and taxes, there would be no air planes, no roads, no cars, no factories, etc, etc..... You would build your own house, raise your own food, manage your own crap, find your own clean water and have to protect yourself from those who would take everything you have including your life. Whatever your reason for such disdain for civilization, the cold reality is you would likely not even be here in it's absence. Does the government have problems, it sure does, but it's not a reason to worry yourself into self enslavement. Instead you might look for a country where you can travel on jets at your whim for free, has no big corporations with political influence, and allows you to decide how much you will pay in taxes. AND, you still haven't mentioned any freedoms you have "lost" except the freedom to let others pay your fair share of taxes. Not having the means to do something is not a loss of the freedom to do it. .
Maybe if we didn't depend on such a fallible source of energy, there wouldn't be an oil spill. imagine that!
This is why I normally stay out of this forum. It's likely an illustration of why so many will not involve themselves in politics at all- to be attacked and painted as stupid and naive for holding views that may well reflect an incomplete set of facts. The fact is that none of us have all the answers and I'm confident that there is no extent of research I could possibly do to back what are just opinions. My belief that the government is operating outside the bounds of decency has been cemented by matters not covered in this discussion... and questions as to whether an individual who happens to be president has done enough is based on a premise I believe to be flawed... that being that the president has much sway over what happens. I see criminal hopefuls making the same transparently empty promises to clean up the government but the disgust over that pales in comparison to the disheartening realization that people still buy into the lies. I base my opinions on what I see... and I've witnessed a world economy taken down a notch through a real estate swindling scheme that in retrospect seems so transparent that our lawmakers should have been on top of it before it created the bubble so heavily invested in that its bursting stole retirements virtually overnight- yet those who go to such lengths to convince us they are looking out for our interests chose to dump hundreds of billions of taxpayer money onto the culprits and not a dime to support what working class folks have worked so hard to attain. I've watched as the so-called representative democracy rules against the will of the people again and again. I see us waging wars that seem at best to be based on shaky evidence and are not exactly winnable-- I see a move to make health care a part of expanding bureaucracy while the empty pledge is that my taxes will not go up because of it... I see the unemployed being used as pawns in political gamesmanship ahead of a mid-term election in an apparent aim to get them to vote for the "assured" handout while little is being done to stimulate job creation which would make the handout unnecessary. I see increasing economic constraints moving to effectively restrict how far I could travel making the NSA's watch list a moot point from the perspective of this potential "terrorist" who foolishly chose to get a job instead of living off a piece of land for which there was little preparation... and you demand an itemized list of liberties that I have lost to justify an opinion I hold concerning what appear to be the actions of officials interested solely in serving the interests of the corporate entities whom they really represent apparently. We all choose a set of limitations in life and you're correct in pointing out that I have chosen mine.... essentially enslaving myself. To me this does not disqualify me from having opinions about a system that the longer I see it in action the more I'm convinced it has anything but my interests at heart. That I do not have a ton of time to research does not pre-empt me from having an opinion... nor should it anyone else. Is it any real surprise so few have any solid answers to a situation that offers little beyond spin and propaganda for information? Every discussion here seems to be a trap.... and I stepped right in one here. It doesn't help that my debate skills could use a lot of work. My mistake is bothering here... I have a full time job and a life that offers very little time to get into it with political junkies such as yourself. Forget I posted. I won't make that mistake again.
We're just tossin around opinions here, I didn't ask for citations. No worries, I'll just ignore your posts in the future. It is curious, though, that you would post some off the wall opinions and expect that no one would respond, in a discussion forum. Maybe it's the word Discuss that threw me off. You say you don't have time, yet 13,490 posts. At 5 minutes a post, that's 1,124 hours, or 46.8 days. .
You are not owed an explanation of my posting here and the manner in which you have chosen to "dictate"the terms on which I can hold and express my opinion is not the least bit appreciated. it is folks like you, who behave as though one isn't entitled to express his or her opinion without making itemized justifications is arguably why so few actually post in these forums.
I find this an interesting snippet- as it seems to indicate you making some rather bold insinuations about me personally. Are you attempting to use a form of personal attack to incite some "typical liberal" irrational response from me?
There isn't one question mark in that entire post and you're the one with the title that implies "Moderator," I have no dictatorial powers. I couldn't care less if you respond to anything I say or not. Again, this is called a "discussion board" because it's purpose is to discuss. You said that you do not want to discuss, I stated that I would no longer reply to your posts, so what is your fucking problem? And that is a rhetorical question so your response is neither required nor desired. Not really, but your last 3 posts are rather irrational. .
Discussing politics tends to bring out an irrational facet of me and part of why I loathe doing so and try normally to keep the fuck out. Congratulations- you have reinforced that. I wouldn't discount that there may have been intent on bringing that out. Allowing myself to be drawn into these pisses me off mostly because I really ought to know better than to involve myself anyway.
