The eradication of money

A true hippy is an utopian.
The UTOPIA Movement believes that, to change the world, we have to forever get rid of:
Famine, wars, weapon production, injustice, robbery, fraud, extortion, waste, pollution, exploitation, lotteries, casinos, the World Bank and all banks in the world, the World Trade Organization,
Finance Companies, the Stock Exchange, Insurance Companies along with greed, swindling, pettiness, cheating, profit, publicity, speculation, prostitution, competition and corruption. When all that disappears, then the world will be changed.

Only with the eradication of money will all these things cease to exist, as they exist only because of money.

The UTOPIA Movement has the mission to promote a world without money, and to convince men, to offer, free of charge, all the goods and services they produce instead of selling to each other as it has been done since the stone age.
We are open to discussion at:http://groups.msn.com/UtopiaMovement

 

What you're proposing sounds a lot like Stalinism. Eliminate or repress anything you see as a social problem...

And you can't just decide to eliminate money. If you get rid of green pieces of paper, people will start to use something else. In some South Pacific islands, Budweiser is the currency. On one island, tree trunks are used.

 

This is EXACTLY what the New World Order wants. They want a cashless society, therefore more control over the people and their lives.

There will always be a monetary system, except instead of involving paper money it will someday involve RFID technology and implanted radio microchips. We are already seeing this technology being implemented in some areas of the globe.

Stop being so naive and try educating yourself.

I am all in favor of ridding ourselves of the Federal Reserve, World Bank and WTO, but there is no such thing as a free society without any form of currency.

I think what you're referring to is communism (ie: fascism).

 

We do not use money inside our families, so why do we need money in the world at all? We are actually a big family, so let's organize whatever needs to be organized, without money.
When we abolish money we will at the same time give every individual the freedom to realize himself, to choose independently of money, what he wants to do and where to live etc.. Finally we will be treating others humans as grown-ups, they can decide for themselves, we can no longer force people around with money as a whip, it is not worthy a civilized society.
Fortunately it is fairly simple to abolish the money system.
The most usual objection to these ideas are: "but if we could choose ourselves then nobody would work.."
My answer is: People basically want to help, many research projects have shown this, if we didn't guess it ourselves, that most people are very prepared to help others, and most of them want the society to work, they want schools to work, and health care, food transport.. So a lot of people will try their best to make their society a functioning society.
We live in a modern world with very good communications, don't you think we can discuss problems and come to solutions, even without money.

 

In this money-free world we call Utopia, one must realize that everything the real workers produce, all the goods and services we consume (or want to consume), would be free for everyone.
Utopia this future society based on generosity is the opposite of this dystopian society based on greed. It's not facism, it's the brotherhood of man.
The New World Order wants electronic money to control everyone totally. That is facism and it's where the existence of any currency will take us eventually. It's not a money-free world they want, it's a dominion of money over the world.

Meditate on this idea. Utopia has to germinate in the minds of intelligent people first. All the rest will follow.

 

As much as I wish people could be depnded on to all work together in a large country, it would never work, theres always too much of a difference in opinion. I do believe anarchy works in small tribal communities who are all willing to work together, but in a large country like america or canada in your case, the people just need a central government, BUT, the government should be run by the people, not like in America or Canada these days.

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

Well GNU projects is anarchistic in nature, sure GNU is only software but within a anarchistic framework covering alot of people and ideas this method has worked very well, just have to figure out how to extend that to the physical work.

 

Can you imagine a world without money?


The utopia movement is working for:
1 Open democratic parlamentarism.
2 Upholding and furthering of civil rights.
3 Material equality and equal rights to private property for everybody.
4 Abolishment of the monetary system and the power of money.
5 All work shall be voluntary. Give the individual real freedom.
Points 1 and 2 are already accepted principles in most advanced democracies (but seldom fully implemented).
Points 3,4 and 5 are unique for the utopia program, and they replace raw capitalism with a human society and individual freedom. Instead of stepping on human values for the sake of money, as the monetary system forces us to do, we can help each other and live in freedom and happiness. Utopia will let us individually take responsibility of our own life's. We do not need the whips and carrots of the monetary system anymore.
Actually, we cannot afford to keep the monetary system. It is destroying people and human values and it is the single most destructive factor on the planet today.
We do not need money anymore, and it is really easy to abolish it.
Today, in the capitalist-democratic world, money is seen as the primary driving force for all development. We do not accept this myth. For example, most doctors study very hard for more than 20 years before they can start to work, and keep on studying for the rest of their life's, and work 50-70 hours per week, under enormous pressure and responsibility, for about the same salary as the average restaurant owner. Money is NOT the driving force for most people who study and do very valuable work for the society. Instead it is the personal interest which drives most people to study and work in intellectually demanding professions.
1. This movement is totally peaceful and legal. As long as we have freedom to work for our ideas, as we have in most countries in the world today, there is no need for underground or illegal actions. Furthermore, utopia can never be achieved with violent means, or against the will of the majority, so the only way forward is through information, discussion and letting everybody think and decide for themselves.

 

That is idiotic. Most people do things for their families because they love them. Most people do not love random strangers in the same way; and if you say you do, you're lying. If you had to choose between the life of your child and the life of a stranger, how long would you need to think about it?

Umm, no. As I said, eliminating green pieces of paper will just cause people to use something else for currency.

Under capitalism, you can decide for yourself whether to work or not. Just like I can decide whether or not to give you charity if you choose not to work.

Under communism (which is what you're proposing), people are FORCED to provide for the wellbeing of others.

You need to open an economics book.

No. People will NOT want to help if they aren't rewarded for it. Why the hell would anyone want to bust their ass collecting trash, when they could sit at home and play XBox?

 

Which would instantly reinstate money and capitalism...

What about my right to property, and my right to benefit from my work?

Why don't you get the ball rolling by putting everything you own on your front lawn, and just let anyone who wants to take what they want.

Can never happen, not even under communism.

So maybe we'll have 10% (the suckers) providing for 90% of the people (the loafers). Can't you see any problem with that system?

What's your point? That we'll have enough doctors? How about trash collectors, and sewage treatment people, and fast food workers, and business owners, and any other profession that isn't doctors?

That's only true in very rare cases. I have an interest in teaching biology; I also have an interest in laying on the sofa watching movies. That doesn't mean I'd be equally likely to do both if I wasn't receiving a paycheck from my job.

 

You mean the property that was taken by force? How about the property that use to be a commons and owned by everyone that the Encloser Act turned into private property? All land is stolen and only when the land is return to the people as commons would there be world peace.

As for the right to benefit from your work well programers working on GNU projects benefit from work even though they are giving they work away for free.

Commons means people have free access, think it like a library you can't just takes books and not return them yet you can have free access and borrow them.

More like 90% of the people working 10% of the time (or less) that if you got rid of our consumerist society would be more then enough productivity to give everyone everything they really want (once you de-brainwash the masses).

In other words fuck materialism, free time brings more happiness then consumer products.

 

Dear Kandahar,
Thanks for your interest inUtopia.

What about my right to property, and my right to benefit from my work?

Your benefit from your voluntary work would be much more than your actual salary but all what society provides.

Why don't you get the ball rolling by putting everything you own on your front lawn, and just let anyone who wants to take what they want.

We did it last year. Instead of a garage sale to get rid of our surplus, we made a "good riddance day" where everything on the table was given away for free. It was a success.


Can never happen, not even under communism.

Communism has always been established with the capitalist tool which is money. Our movement promoting a money-free world is called the brotherhood of man not communism.



So maybe we'll have 10% (the suckers) providing for 90% of the people (the loafers). Can't you see any problem with that system?

You are right. It is estimated that only 10% of the manpower would be sufficient to provide all the essential goods and services we need in a world without money.




That's only true in very rare cases. I have an interest in teaching biology; I also have an interest in laying on the sofa watching movies. That doesn't mean I'd be equally likely to do both if I wasn't receiving a paycheck from my job.
Do you mean to tell me you would not teach biology anymore and spend the rest of your life watching tv if all would be given to you free? I don't believe that. Our drive that gets us to work is our need to feel useful to others. Teaching is very gratifying, I do it myself and I would be pleased to it do voluntarily if everything I need would available free.

 

i don't want to say much, i grow tired of the "you idealistific idiot" comebacks so all i'm going to do is send some love to the originator, there are those of us that support the idea

 

I can't believe some of this gullible nonsense I am reading.

How do you fools plan to overthrow the government and install your little fantasy land? Many people dislike the government, but few are gullible enough to support a moneyless society (which IS essentially communism, since only those in power have money), which would never in a million years work.

Even if there was a "moneyless society," there would still likely be somebody with unlimited power over everyone else, as there always is.

What you people really want is a Soviet-like dictatorship, I think.

Some of you people should really lay off the drugs and return to reality for a bit.

And if only 10% were needed to manufacture goods and provide services to the masses, what or who would determine who these 10% would be? Would they be slaves or mental defects or something, forced into labor while everyone else stands around and strokes their meat?

People who have lived in a capitalistic world their entire lives are never going to accept a moneyless one, because whether you like material things or not, many people do, and they don't want some fascist communist telling them how to live their lives.

If you people want to live that way, that is what communes are for. Then you can all live in harmony with your unwashed, bug-infested brethren and let everyone else live how they want to live.

 

Don't you think there's a statute of limitations on things like that? Enclosure took place centuries ago.

There would be NOTHING BUT conflict if all land was commons.

"Excuse me, police? There's an intruder in my bedroom who I'm worried might rape me."
"But it's his bedroom too. Call us back if he attacks you."

They benefit from the project itself like everyone else does, but the marginal benefit of their personal work is very small and is greatly outweighed by the costs of the many hours they have to put into it.

So can I borrow your clothes? How about your toothbrush?

And how exactly do you plan to "de-brainwash" the masses? Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's HUMAN NATURE, and not the result of brainwashing, that people look out for themselves first?

 

How is that a benefit of my work? Under your system, don't I benefit from what society provides whether I work or not?

Your "surplus"? You still have a computer, which I assure you, you don't need. Why didn't you put everything you own out for people to come and take?

Call it what you like. It's basically the same thing Karl Marx proposed.

So you'll have 90% of people loafing around their houses all day, and the other 10% will fight over who gets the "good" jobs. Who's going to collect the neighborhood trash, and work in sanitation plants, and prepare our food? Your opinion of "essential goods and services" is OK if one doesn't mind living a Spartan lifestyle. For the other 99.9% of us who actually enjoy economic freedom, technological advances, and clean neighborhoods, capitalism is the way to go.

Maybe not watch TV, but I doubt I'd teach anymore. Why would I bother to wake up at 8:00 AM, grade papers, and bullshit with superiors, if I wasn't getting paid for it?

Even if teaching is an exception (and I'm not sure it is), the vast majority of jobs are not so gratifying that you would have droves of people wanting to undertake for no reward.

 

Already, 95% of all money is digital, ie. it exists only as data in the world's computer systems. Still, for the world to go 100% cashless, the elected politicians would have to give up the potential they now have of receiving unreported cash donations from their supporters and those who are lobbying them to implement policies that will be to their benefit.
So, if you can see politicians kissing goodbye to all the potential future golden handshakes, etc., then, sure, a cash free future is possible.

 

Nope, the land is the peoples birth right.

Again it is like the library system in that you have to wait if someone is using the book with a library and here your bedroom is yours till you are no longer using it and your bedroom goes back into the resource pool to be lent out again. Since everyone needs to be housed there is no point in having to give your home back till you die or move.

Yet if everyone is offering the benefits of their work for free your also benefiting from other workers work. It becomes a loop, a farmer makes food that feeds the town in return the town supports the farmer by providing the farmer with what he needs and wants.

Since everyone needs a toothbrush there is no point, as for clothes it is like the tooth brush but unlike tooth brushs there is the possiblity of swaping clothing but I'm happy my clothes so no.

What do you call adversting everywhere that is brainwashing since the point of adversting is manufacturing demand.

But you benefit from the health of the community so helping it out would in turn help you.

Clean neighborhoods? If you have not noticed capitalism has brought pollution and traffic. By de-industrializing traffic you'll have more green space for your kids to safly play in plus they could actully play in the streets with only minor risk of fatality since you don't have cars all over the place.

And if don't have superiors or have to getup at 8:00am? If it was not stressful for you to teach?

Your thinking capitalist jobs and industrial jobs. De-industrialize and remove capitalism and most of the non gratifying jobs go away, add automating (remeber I said de-industrialize not take away technology) and without capitalism punishing unemployment you can slowly phase out human labour where possible.

 

Utopian, I am curious:


How would a Utopian society deal with the scarcity of resources?

How would "voluntary" producers calculate to ensure that they were making the most productive use of scarce resources?

 

Actually, no. Back when hunter-gatherers were around, you could work at getting the required resources for surviving and spend about 10% of the time we currently do working. That was back when resources were plentiful and the world wasn't grossly overpopulated. Do you really think that the entire world could live off of the land's natural resources now, without extensive farming and livestock programs/industires? Even now food shortages exist. Farming in Canada is becoming less and less common, which sure doesn't help with the food shortages.

The elimination of money wouldn't get rid of greed. People will want - it's built into us, it's evolutionary. We want more, so that we have a better chance of surviving. The only singular possible way it could ever happen was if society's values were built on not wanting more than the bare minimum - not something that is easy (if even possible) to bring about. Have you read Utopia? Brave New World? Any "utopian" novels? (I put it in brackets because while it may be utopia for some, it is dystopia for others)