The intelligence of the genre

Ok, let me start off by saying that this post may raise a few hairs, might make some angry, might put off a few, might make some think, might encompass all of these things together, or might just be the ramblings of an old man. Either way, I hope it will bring about a major discussion.

Preface: I was just sittin out on my porch here in Vegas, a beautiful 75 degree day with no wind, and cars were driving by. From these vehicles, I heard different music. One had rap playing, one had a Tom Petty song playing, one had a country song playing, etc.

So it got me to thinking of the difference between the genres, and the intelligence of the listener involved.

Me myself, I have always been a classic rocker, but have delved into other genres such as jazz, blues, classical, and older country.

Now, lets get into it. First of all, the first thing I heard while on the porch was a car bangin with rap. This is what got me immediately thinking. Rap first of all isnt even music, and those who listen to it must be very angry with life in general, as that is pretty much the feeling I get when I hear that crap.

But this is also what got me thinking about the different genres of music. Classic rock being my fav was and is more about the instruments(guitars, keyboards, sometimes horns, and drums), than about the vocals themselves. When I say vocals, I dont mean the words themselves, but the quality of the voice itself. Lets face it, country has the best singers ever, but I feel that country music is mainly about the vocals, and not about the instruments, or music itself.

Then there is the blues, which I feel is more about the words and the instruments, but again, not the quality of the singer. And jazz would be more about the instruments and the quality of the music, as most jazz is instrumental to begin with.

Classical music seems to be more about the written piece itself, rather than the quality of the musicians.

To add to all this, just look at the top ten of each genre, and think about it. The top ten majority in rock will have a name of the band that has nothing to do with who is in the band, because it is all about the instruments being played by everyone in the band. The top 10 majority in country will have the lead singer because that is all about what country music is, just the vocals(quality of). The top ten majority of jazz will be a group name as it is all about the quality of all instruments being played. The top ten majority of blues will be a name of the person who is singing and playing the music. The top ten majority in classical music will be the writer of the piece of music, and not who is actually playing it.

So, what does this all infer? Well, that is the point of this thread.

My take is this: Rap is crap and can only be enjoyed by those who have so much anger or trouble in their life that they are just social outcasts. Country music is enjoyed by those who just love to hear a pretty voice, but to have multiple instruments making quality sounds is too much for their brains to handle. I mean, we are talking about southerners here who are synonomous with inbreeding and other stuff. Blues are for those who can encompass the quality of the words and maybe one or two instruments playing quality music. Classic rock will be those who with the most part, dont care about the quality of the voice, but appreciate what it takes to get a few people together playing music which melds together. Jazz will be for those who appreciate many people getting together with quality playing, forgetting vocals for the main part. And classical will be for those who dont care about the actual playing, but the written piece by the man himself.

Ok, I know I left a lot out. It was hard enough to type all this. It was more easy to talk about with others as I sat on the porch than it was to type out. So much has been left out here, but maybe you get the general idea.

 

Wow all those paragraphs and you didn't say a damn thing.

 

Ok, there is one who doesnt have a clue.

 

Who needs a clue when you've already told me the answer.

Don't want to hijack the thread, just wanted to add my 2 cents. Peace.

 

Well, I am looking for an intelligent discussion here of what I have wrote. Agree with me on points, disagree with me on points, give your own take on certain things. That is what this is all about. But to just post for the sake of posting, well, ok, that gives me an insight as well.

 

Genres of music aren't based on the level of intelligence of the listener, but the shared culture and circumstances of the musician/writer/listener.
For instance, one could easily compare country to rap, not because of the "quality of the voice" singing, but because they are both music genres that reflect a certain culture, and it is members of that culture that they usually attract.

 

Now, here is a good point. And it can be directed towards many. But I also know of many who like country who werent born in the south or never been there, or those who like rap who have never been in a ghetto or been associated with any gang activity(IE from a affluent neighborhood)etc. etc. Yes, there is a majority who's upbringing and geographical upbringing has a say in what they prefer, but again, I was brought up in San Jose California and my fav is still southern rock such as Skynyrd, Blackfoot, ARS, etc. , so there is a choice from which you prefer as to where you live.

Now, as for the intelligence, as this thread's title implies, that is the big question. Musical intelligence and general intelligence is different, but I do believe there is a correlation. It takes intelligence to recognize intelligence, in the way we act, the way we do things, the way we perceive things, etc etc etc.

 

Well, naturally there is a choice as to what you like. I've never been to Europe yet I consider Bach to be the pinnacle of human musical expression.
What I meant by culture is how you perceive yourself. We were all raised a certain way, but I think many people make their own culture, they create who they are based on various influences, and musical taste is simply one example of how people like to express outwardly how they internally perceive themselves.

Was Bach more intelligent than Tupac?
In all likelihood, yes.
Is Bach's music more complicated, and does it include a wider array of higher musical thought and ideas?
Yes.
Is everyone that listens to Bach of higher intelligence than everyone that listens to Tupac?
No.

Just as I can enjoy Bach, I also enjoy listening to progressive metal, electronica, trance, and synthesized video game music.
There is no possible way to determine a genre's intelligence in a sweeping judgment of it's listeners, because the listeners are so varied in their reasons for listening in the first place. I'm sure some people exclusively listen to Bach because they believe it makes them smart, or it gives them a backdrop in order to act snobby, and walk away without ever gaining anything from the music at all.
When it comes to extrapolating the level of intelligence of a person based on musical tastes, I'd say the only factor that really matters is how much a person limits themselves to a specific genre.

 

As I have said, musical intelligence and general intelligence is different. But I do believe there is a correlation. I can honestly say some of the smartest people I have ever met were at a jazz concert. And some of the stupidist people I ever met were at a country concert, I dont claim to be smarter than anyone else. Hell, I am a dumbass. I have street smarts and book smarts, but dont really know how to apply them. But I love to see people challenged and I love a spirited discussion. Hence this thread.

 

Yeah I agree to an extent, i mean even though rap takes less brain power to process, its still one of my very favorite genres, the beats in rap are amazing alot of the time, and the lyrics just make you feel badass. I don't think it comes down to how intelligent you are, but moreso what kind of style you are into. Personally i like most kinds of music, but

i have the most respect for music like psytrance, electronica, house etc, because these kinds make me think on a whole new level that is deeper than any other kind of music. It makes me really wish that there was music deeper than that, i feel like i'm ahead of the game now that i have heard all of that and understand it.

So yeah certain music does take a certain intelligence to respect, even if you don't like the genre that is acceptable but if you have the intelligence you should be able to understand the music and get why people like it so much. Like i have some friends that are crazy stoners and they pretty much only listen to rap, because tbh i think thats as far as they want to think. I tried playing some crazy ass music that really gets me going and they're just like woah that is too much man thats too intense.

 

i'm havin a little trouble with the concrete nature of your opinion. at any rate, a person shouldn't base his assumptions regarding music and its listeners solely on mainstream offerings.

take the guy that drove past blasting rap from his ride... it was prolly some lame ass track about rims and blowjobs. thats what sells. do you like poetry? take some sick freeverse and set it to a beat. most would call that a rap.

as far as genres go, mainstream music is all the same. country, rap, rock, r&b, pop... all the same song, just with slight variations in delivery. britney spears is taylor swift is beyonce is dio... and it sucks whichever way you choose to hear it.

disagree with the sweeping generalization regarding intelligence and music, also. well, not completely... but as far as going to shows is concerned. for instance, i saw the band 'toubab krewe' about a month ago. the music they make is an amalgamation of west african, jazz, rock influences. fairly intelligent stuff... we'll say it's on the same kinda intellectual plane as jazz. lots of dumbass custy fucks there. i donno. b-b-b-b-b-bye

 

You dont know much about hip hop do you?
A lot of old skool and undergrounds dont even sound remotey like the ones on the radio, take Atmosphere for example, insted of just play the beat at life shows they get an entire band to preform the intierments, murs talks about poltics and speaking his mind, immortal technique is the same but he is much harder.
I doubt you even know who Grand Master Flash and Tupac are.

 

My take, and this is one of the greatest aspects of music, is that there essentially is nothing in each genre of music that indicates the intelligence of its audience. One seriously could enjoy all genres of music and not even think about whether listening to a certain genre would make one seem more intelligent.

Example: One of my personal pet peeves is when someone - not saying that you have, just to be clear - say they listen to "musician's music". What the hell is "musician's music" anyway? Isn't music for everybody equally? I can certain understand why they feel the need to classify certain kinds of music "musician's music" because of its complexity, and musicianship that is required to perform it. But then again, why is 'Smells Like Teen Spirit" not a musician's music, too? Love him or hate him, Kurt Cobain was a musician, and in my opinion he actually wrote some rather inspirational songs, too. Point being, calling a type of music "musician's music" really is pointless because all music is musician's music and also not JUST reserved for musicians only but for EVERYONE who appreciates it.

Same thing goes for the intelligence aspect of music as well. What exactly determines the intelligence of the audience that enjoys a particular genre of music? What determines the personalities of the audience? I believe one needs to be VERY specific in trying determine those things. Over-generalization is a problematic approach that could prevent one from being able to open their minds.

It is my opinion that you have stated here nothing more than your personal, and rather general, opinion. It is your opinion that rap is "crap", classic rock features great musicians but not the quality of the singers, classical music is about the composer and not about the actual musicianship displayed by the performers, and so on so forth. All that is your personal opinion, not something with a solid back bone. It is how you yourself feel, and it naturally does not necessarily apply to everyone else.

I'd like to express that rap IS music, the style of singing(rapping) is done so as to have more of a percussive effect than the melodic quality. Just because one is a drummer doesn't make one a non-musician. The same thing applies to a rapper as well. A talented rapper is like a talented percussionist. They manipulate beats and are aware of how to make the words rhyme in the very process as well. I personally perceive this to be highly musical.

Classic rock has featured some of the greatest singers of all time, look at Robert Plant, Brad Delp(Boston), Gregg Rolie(Journey), just to name a few. And to play what composers like Mozart, Bach, Chopin, Beethoven, and Paganini wrote, one needs to have a very high level of musicianship for there is so much advanced musical knowledge within their work. Musicians in orchestras such as Berlin Philharmonic and London Phil harmonic are nothing short of masters themselves, fully confident in performing the pieces written by the masters before them.

Having said all that, I certainly can relate to what you have said. I have once been just as ignorant, not giving certain kinds of music a chance while focusing on a selected few. But I was able to grow out of that phase and I am thankful for that. There is so much more to learn out there in the world of music, and there is something intelligent about each and every genre of music.

 

is this thread supposed to be a piss take?

 

Where does a MFing classic rock fan get off dissing hip hop? I'd like to contend that that hip hop has THE MOST creativity of expression, THE MOST cultural value and THE MOST intelligence of and any genre you might want to pit it against.

Oh yeah, country has the best vocals? No, nigga, that would be soul.

 

What I get especially of the first post in this thread is what the OP appreciates and what he doesn't. I don't like rap and hip hop either, can't get into it and do not want to.
I think it shows some intelligence to not judge a genre or their listeners if you can't get into it. It's ok to not have a fully grounded opinion on everything you don't like, just don't think the genre (or it listeners) lack musical intelligence because you don't see it. Ah well, you can think it of course but it doesn't really tickle me to start another discussion based on these generalizations again.

 

Charlie Parker loved country music...

ZW

 

I highly agree with this thread to the fullest extent. It really depends on the individual person. I agree a band like Grateful Dead is much more quality music then that of toby keith or some angry black dude yelling in a mic. Pretty much im throwing this out there. Any band, that can have a biases of a song (maybe the original song is about 5 minutes long) and they can carry that song out, for about 15 minutes, because of live musical improvisation is the highest forum of music. Any band that can go up on a stage, create brand new material in front of a crowd, material that hasent been used previously, haven't been played yet. A band that knows each other so good that they have a flow so good with each-other that they can just create in front of a crowd. That is the highest forum of music. Not musicians who play the same songs, over and over and over. Many people can write 12 songs and sing it over and over. But it takes true talent to be able to get up on a stage, and improv. Jam bands, LIVE improv music. Take a look into it. Now many jazz bands would do this. You have to respect the roots. Jazz and blues and bluegrass are the roots of music, you cant be even dissing the roots of things. but you make some pretty valid points. though there really is no best in music, because everyone contributes something of their own. thats like picking the best artist. sure u dont charcoal drawings compared to watercolors drawings, or oil pastels but it dosent make it better, its just verity.

 

Jam happens in all genres including rap/hip hop. Freestyling, beatboxing, and DJing are all based on improvisation.

 

American rap does suck ass tbh. I do like some british hip hop though, the kind who still "fight the powers that be" rather than turning into a cartoon-esque capitalist like the rest of them. But it's more the bassline than the lyrics.

Still though, there are SOME rap songs with deep meanings. Saying rap fans are angry at life is like saying hippies smell and do nothing but smoke weed. Stereotypes get you nowhere.