Vegetarians Are STUPID

I was sent this article by a friend of mine who feels that wearing leather is no different than eating meat. I am a vegetarian who believes in not supporting animal cruelty but still own leather goods. I want to start eliminating those goods that I own but until now have never considered myslef to be a "hypocrite"...

I want to hear your opinions and views on this article:

Vegan: Vegetarians Are Stupid

First, I would like to inform you that I am not a bitter meat-eater. I am what people I know have labeled as an "angry vegan." I would like to say that I am not just going into some rant about throwing paint on fur coats (though I would do so) or dissection (which is disgusting). I'm going to write about why vegetarians suck. Vegetarians are a tricky breed. While they preach about animal rights and the environment, all they do by cutting meat, and only meat, out of their diets is to support the same corporations and activities they so ignorantly claim to be in protest of. This is fact due to the following:
Animal Rights: While talking to a vegan friend of mine, we came to the conclusion that no person can be vegetarian and also claim to be pro animal rights. Let me give you his example: if there is a slave who has the choice between two owners, one who will beat her ten times a day but only feed her once every other day, and the other who will never beat her and feed her five times a day, and maybe even treat her as an equal, she will obviously choose the second. Does this make her any freer? Obviously not. The slave is still owned by someone who "superior" to her. She is still exploited property. The same can be said about animals. By refusing to eat the meat of an animal, yet still using the same methods of exploitation in order to get eggs or dairy, aren't you committing the same crime?

Consumption: So many vegetarians claim to be minimalists. How untrue this is. Has anyone ever pointed out to you that Milk is a corporation? Not only that, but Milk supports Delta Foods (one of Canada's leading meat distribution corporations), since many of their factory-farms are jointly run. In fact, all of the meat corporations also produce eggs and dairy products. How is eating a piece of cheese any different from eating a steak? It isn't. In fact, Milk supplies leading meat corporations such as Hill Foods, Hudson Foods, Delta (those three being Canadian) and the American Meat Institute with baby calves who are slaughtered for veal. By consuming dairy you support veal. (Mind you, Yves, the vegetarian/vegan food line, as well as Silk soy milk, has been bought out by Delta, but I'm sure all of the minimalist vegetarians knew that. Ha).

Environmentalism: You cannot be a meat-eater/vegetarian and call yourself an environmentalist. You want to talk about Third World countries, world hunger, and rainforests? Put down your fork for a second. By eating dairy or meat you are consuming the same as about seven children living in a Third World nation. Where do you think roughly 75 percent of the world's grain and 90 percent of fresh water goes? To the rainforest? No, sorry, it goes to the animals who are slaughtered for your taste buds. If you eat eggs or dairy you are perpetuating the problems you claim to be against. Eating meat is a luxury and can only be done by exploiting Third World nations. If we as a society did not consume meat, we could feed every starving person in these countries. You may be thinking, who would take it there? This isn't a good argument. Hate to break it to you, but those countries destroy rainforests everyday in order to grow grain to sell to corporations here, so they can raise animals for slaughter at the cheapest price possible. Third World nations could use their own grain to feed their own people, as well as end a lot of rainforest depletion if you weren't supporting the meat and dairy industry.

"all they do by cutting meat, and only meat, out of their diets is to support the same corporations and activities they so ignorantly claim to be in protest of"

Health-Conscious: I hate bringing up this point because this is a more superficial reason to abstain from animal products. But I'll bring it up for those who go around spouting off health issues (which I often do, when debating with superficial people). Dairy is not good for you. If you look at many intellectual and reliable sources, such as Alternet.com as well as Fitnessforems.com, both do not recommend (and even warn from) eating dairy products. I often find it puzzling that a person can call me an idiot for saying it is possible to get your daily requirement of Vitamin D by getting 15-30 minutes of natural sunlight, rather than drinking a liquid that came from the breast of another species. Humans are the only creatures who drink milk as adults, and it isn't even of our own species. Has anyone asked why North America is the leading continent in which osteoporosis occurs? Contrary to popular belief, this isn't because we don't drink enough milk. In fact, the problem sprouted when we began consuming milk. (Milk contains a protein known as casein, which actually leeches calcium from your bones). The South African Star reports that in countries that don't drink the same insane amounts of dairy we do, there are drastically fewer cases of the disease. There are many other sources of vitamin D and calcium that do not contain the same high amounts of fat or cholesterol. The same can be said for eggs. Both products cause greasy skin and brittle nails (which don't even contain calcium - they are made of keratin). While many people are quick to say, "well, both of these products are recommended by the government in the Health Check program," if you read the program thoroughly, you will notice that egg and dairy farmers of Canada sponsor Health Check. Coincidence? No. In fact, doctors in North America are currently targeting the "Got Milk" campaign, claiming that the milk moustache is "a dangerous vogue."Alternet informs us that milk accounts for 55 percent of solid fats and that the milkstache is a "creamy layer of mucus, live bacteria, and pus." The doctors claim that dairy products are the cause of medical conditions such as "prostate cancer, ovarian cancer, diabetes, obesity, and heart disease."

Politics: Heard of NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement? It is very hard to avoid all free trade products, but meat and dairy are a blatantly large part of free trade, which many 'socially-aware vegetarians' tend to oppose. When I visited the American Meat Institute's website, they sported a good ten free trade agreements, which were open for public viewing. Unfortunately not one of the links worked. That's convenient. Delta didn't even have a website.

Alternet informs us that milk accounts for 55 percent of solid fats and that the milkstache is a "creamy layer of mucus, live bacteria, and pus."
Being Vegetarian: Okay, this little section is devoted to the "vegetarians who only eat fish/chicken/whatever." You are not vegetarian! The last time I checked, chickens don't grow on trees (unless you work for KFC, then you've probably seen chickens growing off of everything). Chickens have central nervous systems and can feel fear and pain. The same can be said for fish. Though "seafood" (such as lobster and shrimp) don't have central nervous systems, they do have pain receptors. In other words: lobsters aren't down with being cooked alive. I personally don't understand you people. I think it's more of an attention seeking thing.

Now, I'm not bitter towards every vegetarian. I was once one of you. Everyone has to start somewhere. The vegetarians I have problems with are the people who never intend to go vegan: the people who can rant about animal rights and why eating meat is bad, while they sit there and eat a plate full of cheese and eggs. I think that there shouldn't be a word such as "vegan." Vegans are true vegetarians, and the current definition of a vegetarian should basically be "meat-eater" since they both support the same things.

 

i'd have to say that I pretty much agree with that. i think any veggie knows though that dairy and eggs support animal cruelty.....except maybe some organic? I dont know about that one~ but like he said, its a start.....its my start and I intend to go vegan just as soon as I get myself fully educated about vegan foods and health/vitamin stuff that goes along with being vegan. I'm working on it (going to buy a couple of books today actually)



btw, if you still own leather and such...getting rid of it wont do the animals any good. you might as well keep it or give it away if you dont want it. I will buy used wool, as it's recycling and not supporting the industry.

 

aowwww you served us good, rshah99.

 

But you could say all the same things about a vegan diet. The same process operates amongst 'anti-globalization' types - it's easy to adopt a more extreme position than the next man, so we get this odd kind of arms-race of views. One person says "I'm a veggie, I'm different and I'm doing some good in the world", so someone else says "humpf I'm more different, I'm doing more good". This can carry on forever, because there's always a more extreme position. It's very hard to argue against, after all - where do you stop?

In fact, that begs a question: If you could click your fingers and change everyone's minds, would you make 'em all vegan? All fruitarian? Assuming the whole world agreed, it would be easy to change agriculture to use less land and water and so on, but how for would you go? No captive animals at all? No pets? No hunting? What about conservation?

 

I've been thinking alot lately about people who are against keeping animals as pets. Can you imagin what would happen if we let all our pets free, they would be running everywhere, into traffic causing accidents, possibly deadly accidents and end up dying themselves! they would be begging for food from neighbors and local resturants, eventually some people would suggest hunting them to keep the population down and they would all end up dead!
hmmmm yeah anyway I think my pets would choose to stay with me and be loved and well taken care of if they knew the alternative!

Besides if you live out in the wilderness where the first scenario wouldn't be possible then our pets would probably die of starvation because they wouldn't know how to hunt. I know my ferrets would starve before they kill their own pray.... they wouldn't know the first thing to do with it other then make friends with it! lol

I know my parents dog would die cause shes afraid of bugs and probably her own shadow!

I was thinking about this because I read awhile back about the extremists who broke in and let all the cattle go free and most of them ran out into heavy traffic, caused accidents, and most died! what good that did,huh!

 

er..well seeing as how i've never claimed any of the above to be true about myself i'm not sure what to say.. i'm sure i know people like that, but i definitely know people not like that, as well

seems a bit stereotypical

 

A vegetarian doesn't just cut out meat, they cut out anything that requires an animal to get killed.

And Organic milk isn't the stereotypical cruelty in milk industries, for one thing, they can't pump 'em with hormones.

Most vegetarians eat/drink organic or free-range. Or, if possible, biodynamic.

They don't buy normal.

 

geez that was harsh, its hard enough getting crap from non-veg*ans...

but to start getting crap from a vegan, gosh i don't think i could handle that offline lol

I've been vegetarian for almost 19 years, and i do intend to stay vegetarian but thats my choice.

I'm pretty sure that most vegans on this forum will agree that they would rather have vegetarians in the world (or to spend time with ie partnership etc) than non-veg*ans.

 

true. i would also like to see people be really happy and healthy though, which would sordove require them eating pure vegan imo. and some people just straight up arent ready for that. i mention being a vegetarian(really vegan) to some people and their like wow you really dont eat meat? i could never do that. dont really know why they say it, its far from being rocket science to simply eat something different. maybe their addicted to it and subconsciously know it? i wouldnt be surprised.

not to say vegetarians arent generally healthier than meat eaters and they cant be healthy, it just makes a huge difference i think to simply eat right, bigger than most think. have you ever fasted? thats a very healthy and really fun thing to do. people have such misconceptions about health. healthy food is delicious. dark chocolate, kiwi, all sorts of fruit and bread and spread and vegetables and salads and real maple syrup and cereal and all sorts of other really simple stuff. i cherish the stuff i put into my body, that just makes sense to me.

people just associate the word health with bad things, its really so simple though. same with excercise, if you ask someone if theyve excercised recently theyll probably have a strong misconception about what your asking. people put themselves through hell to get a little excercise i notice. running through busy streets on blazing hot days, i almost wanna stop and offer them really simple advice to help them along. what about kayaking, bicycling, dancing, yoga, etc etc..? those things are far from what i would call a 'workout'. its just common sense. humans are meant to move, its natural, and their meant to eat what comes straight from the earth, not from some factory. thats really simple common sense to me.

 

wow....suddenly I feel like shit

 

I'm a Vegan. I think it's pretty crummy to attack a group of people (vegetarians) who are at least doing SOMETHING to reduce suffering in the world. Heck, since he eats a little fish once in awhile, my husband is still an omni. But I'm proud of him for the changes he has made in his diet thus far, and I'm proud of him for his activism.

Re. pets: People have proven millions of times over that they are poor guardians of the animals we have domesticated for our use and pleasure. Most of the animal suffering in this world not related to meat production is due to animal breeding. If people stopped breeding animals, more of the poor lost souls confined to shelters would be saved, and fewer unwanted animals would be euthanized. I have three dogs, and all three of them were rescued. I have been vastly enriched by my relationship with these animals, and I think it's very sad to think about a future world without domesticated dogs and cats. But I think it's much, much sadder to visit the local animal shelter and realize what our irresponsibility has caused.

 

I've got a few things to say (as a vegan).

(1) I'm under the impression that vegetarians are vegetarians mainly for health reasons, and vegans are vegans mainly for activist/protest reasons. I personally am the latter.

There are always two sides to it all.

On one hand, a vegetarian who became a vegetarian to protest animal cruelty, is eating no meat and thus doing some small damage to the meat industry.

On the other hand, that same vegetarian is still sponsoring the dairy and poultry industries, so they're still, in a sense, perpetuating the very thing they are protesting.

So my conclusion about that part is that, a vegetarian that has become so for cruelty reasons, isn't really doing anything to stop the cruelty.

But, I don't think that they're stupid. I just think that they need to go a little farther with their cause, and become vegan.

 

mrsshf stated:

<<I'm a Vegan. I think it's pretty crummy to attack a group of people (vegetarians) who are at least doing SOMETHING to reduce suffering in the world. Heck, since he eats a little fish once in awhile, my husband is still an omni. But I'm proud of him for the changes he has made in his diet thus far, and I'm proud of him for his activism.>>

The question I have is:

Is there a difference then between a person that does not eat meat and a person that does not wear leather. Does one action over the other make them more or less or not at all compasionate to animals?

 

I don't have anything against vegetarians, they are one step ahead of those who eat all sorts of animal products, and that's better than nothing in my opinion. Yes, being vegan makes a bit more sense, and I totally agree with that point. But, we should not put down vegetarians EITHER, because they are certainly ahead of a lot of people.

Secondly, not all veggies become veggies because of the animals or whatever else. I have a friend who is vegetarian and has been since the 8th grade, only because meat always seemed to make her sick to her stomach. I wouldn't call her a hypocrite in anyway what so ever, because she's not running around with picket signs, and later eating a block of cheddar cheese. She simply just CAN'T eat meat.

I DO agree with the article for the most part, though. Which is one reason I went vegan... When I was veggie, I just kept seeing all this hypocrisy in it. It was like, "Hey wait. I'm against these industries, but at the same time, I'm eating cheese that comes from possibly the same farm that the meat does, how does that make sense?" I've become strict, extremely. And, I feel that it serves more purpose than it did when I simply just didn't eat meat.

But, like I said, I would never go to the extreme of cutting down vegetarians. I WILL try to point out the bonuses of being vegan instead... but never would I call them stupid or even think such a thing.

I believe eating meat is wrong, but I also dont think meat-eaters are stupid. Ignorant maybe, but not stupid. My boyfriend eats meat, he knows exactly what goes on in factory farms [thanks to me] but, it doesn't really bother him. It doesn't make him stupid, just ignorant and a bit selfish. Some people just aren't affected by that sort of stuff like we are I suppose.

I would never put someone else down for the way they eat or live their lives. I may not agree with it, but it doesn't make one stupid... that is unless they are 800 pounds and continue to scarf down on cheese, meat and ice cream like no tomorrow, then ...then I start to believe they are stupid lol.

 

by the way, there is ONE thing I think is a bit stupid...
Vegetarians who were leather, fur, or whatever else...
Most veggies I know, are vegetarian simply because they don't believe in the KILLING of animals, however... you can't make leather without killing the animal. So that makes NO sense what so ever.

All of the vegans here are fully aware of how eating milk cheese and other products still support the inhumane treatment of animals, but I know a lot of veggies who look at it like, "Well, they still aren't killing the animals, and that's basically all I'm concerned about" which I don't agree with, but... if you're going to have that sort of cause that you support then why the fuck would you even THINK about wearing leather?!

Sure, eating cheese doesn't KILL the cow, but the leather they wear DOES, so tell me how that makes ANY sense?!

 

We're all hypocrites in some way. Some more than others.

When we start to assign labels to people (such as vegan, vegetarian, etc.), the hypocrisy police come out in force. Basically, I live the way I want to live. Fortunately, that way is heavily influenced by the ethics of nonkilling. If someone has a problem with what I eat or wear because it doesn't easily fit into a category or label, so be it. I'm critical of only those that are critical of my own eating habits and lifestyle, because they are generally just so unhappy and insecure that they need to belittle, label (or whatever) people that think just slightly differently than they do. And this is where the hypocrisy comes in, because I'm sure they loathe having people criticize their own lifestyles and choices.

 

i think its kind of narrow minded to just attack based on a stereotypical assumption. personally i am vegetarian and i still wear leather. i am not in a position to waste perfectly good belts and shoes just because my beliefs have changed since the purchase of these items. if some vegan wants to be picky about this they can buy me new items. i have no problem what so ever with that.
i don't like to support the dairy / poultry industry and i try hard not to but a 79 cent can of no name tomato soup is a fuck of alot cheaper than the organic soy alternative. i generally don't have time to shop / cook my own soups and breads and whatever. i do what i can and i know that its a hell of a lot better than it was last year.

 

If the person who doesn't wear leather still eats meat, you mean? Sorry, but I don't even see the point of doing that. Leather is a profitable by-product of the meat industry, but it still a by-product. So you wouldn't be accomplishing much by not wearing leather except maybe to shrink the profit margin a little. The animals would still die.

I think the single most important thing you can do to reduce suffering in the world is to not eat meat.

 

I'm doin' it out of ethical reasons.


And I eat organic and freerange, and, if possible biodynamic (it''s easier to get in Germany though...)