What's It Worth?

I still can't kiss.
I'm great company (or so I've been told); I'm affectionate and love cuddling; I've been fucked twelve times. But I've never been able to successfully kiss and the idea still frightens me.

I think that's one of the reasons why I am afraid to get close to anyone. Because I can't do something that simple and am afraid to ask for help ...
Somehow being able to kiss and be kissed lends equality to an interaction. Since I can't, I'm at a disadvantage, I can never be equal.
Also, who, as a progressive-minded twentysomething (the kinds of people I am attracted to) wants to teach a progressive-minded twentysomething girl how to kiss? Besides, I don't want anyone to teach me because whoever ends up "teaching" me will end up being superior to me, "my daddy" so to speak, and that would ruin the whole relationship.
So I remain kind of worthless, in a sense. Who wants a girl who can't partake in such a simple interaction?

It makes me wonder about the worth of a human being. What makes a partner worthwhile to you?

 

you think too much

 

It's okay to let someone teach you something. There will be other things in the relationship in which you will be teaching him, I promise. It will balance out. If it doesn't count yourself lucky, and learn. It's okay! It's fun. All you have to do is kiss more and note the way he is doing it. Also you could say, I'm anxious about not being a good kisser, can you help me?

Don't worry about the imbalance of power there. There probably isn't one, and even if there is, there's a reason for it. You have a destiny; The Universe has a plan. Then you can have fun trying out your new skill.

Or, maybe you enjoy the poetic quality of being unusual and somewhat forlorn in the area of romance. If that is the case, just recognize it and enjoy that too. Then, when you are ready, you can come out of it and be a great lover. Whenever you are ready.

 

I don't like being forlorn ... it would be great if I could be happy ...

I'm just scared, I don't want to be the naive little girl who needs to be taught. It's embarassing. And it makes me unequal.

(And by the way, these aren't just things I've THOUGHT, they're things I've EXPERIENCED. )

But I was also asking YOUR OPINION. What makes a partner worthwhile to YOU?

To me, keeping one's word and not jerking me around is what makes it worthwhile. When someone says he is going to do something, he ought to do it, not just keep me waiting around while he changes his mind and doesn't tell me.

What about you?

 

I've 'taught' a couple of my exes to kiss, so to speak, and it didn't make us unequal, and it didn't make me their 'daddy'. They taught me a few things, too. So what? That's life!

Kissing, anyway, is a basically very mutual activity, once you really get into it.

I personally think you have a lot of hangups about gender roles and 'equality' in relationships, in large part because of a lot of feminist literature that you've read. You now find it difficult to enjoy male-female relationships, partly because of a lot of false, stereotypical ideas that you've got from reading this stuff.

You're right that a person keeping their word (male or female) and not jerking you around, helps to make a relationship worthwhile. However, you contradict yourself when you say that you don't believe relationships (for you, at least) should be permanent. What you're really saying is that you want a guy to love you and leave you, and then when it happens you're all upset about it. If a relationship isn't permanent, then it's temporary-prepare then, my dear, to be jerked around, because sooner or later, it's gonna happen. You can't have things both ways.

If you want to be happy, and not forlorn, you're gonna have to change some of the attitudes you have about these issues. Obviously, some of these attitudes you've got are causing you a lot of grief and keeping you from really enjoying relationships (or finding the right kind).

You're a nice girl, really. But I have to call it like I see it.

 

I would love it if a girl wanted me to teach her how to kiss. The truth is I have no idea if I'm a good kisser or not. Who is to say?
Also the balance of power in sexual situations is usually on the females side. If you concede a bit of that power to him(?) I don't think you'll be upseting the balance to much.
Find a partner you can trust. and make yourselves happy!!!

 

What makes a partner worth while to me? hmmmm...

I guess I like it when a woman will submit to me and me alone ( not that I'm the dominant type by any means or that I get off on submissive chicks). What I mean is, I like a girl that doesn't put up with anyone's bullshit and does what she wants, but when she looks at me, she crumbles in my arms, as if I were the most precious thing in her life, and she would declare war on the whole world if it tried to take me away from her.

And of course I would feel the same way about her. Such passion is dangerous, I know, but isn't that what makes it so thrilling? Isn't that what makes it all worth while?

 

nah, I want my partner to be WAY less posessive. I like more space than that.

 

many things make a partner worthwhile to me
i will be honest, an intimate kissing connection is very important to me. it is my favorite "activity" to partake in. i dont mean to be insensitive if i am coming across that way, but it does tend to paint an accurate picture of how the relationship and the sex life will be like for me.

i know you did not ask for it and possibly have no interest but here are a few suggestions to relieve you of your angst. in my experience with sexual insecurity the root of the problem lay in the thought or fear, the conviction, which caused me to make the same mistake over and over. once you change the thought... or your mentality and attitude, possibly saying (realistically) "perhaps i do not think i am a good kisser now, but i, as well as anyone, has potential to be"

this may not be at all the case for you, idk.

sadly it might just be the fear and conviction that your a bad kisser... most likely inhibiting you from realizing you might be good at it. obviously its having this effect to some degree because you are hesitant to open up to people and try new things. you might be surprised in the long run? who knows.

there is another way you could go about it, you seem to me a person who is well aware of power struggles (even if most people are not aware of them THEY ARE THERE in every relationship) etc... and it is not a bad thing to think too much (to above), just from reading your post it seems like you and i have quite a few things in common. wow no lie, i think we have alot in common.

if i were in your position i would, if with a guy: tell him in a manner in which my tone suggested no hesitation or insecurity, but assertion and a genuine regard for his sexual needs, to show me how HE likes to be kissed.

this would inadvertenly draw the attention away from you while giving him a chance to relish a spotlight moment to reveal his sexual preferences, giving him this oppertunity might make him feel somewhat important, and would imply that you care what he thinks, id take a guess to say alot of guys would liked to be asked this quesiton by a female, no? guys?

idk. you could even go further with this question by asking if he prefers more lip in this way or tounge in that way, gentle to intense sucking etc, and tell him to show you, its an art form really and everyone tends to get alittle creative in their own right, but mostly its about rhythm, no? (if you prefer it have just alittle bit of alcohol in both your systems, i find it a useful tool every now and then but in moderation and with purpose)

kissing seems to be very intuitive to me. therefore if you think too much about it before it or during it you are not allowing yourself to give into the flow of things...

say he moves his tounge in this direction and his head turns in that direction, you might do the opposite of both his actions. (like yin and yang, tug-o-war) his action your reaction. your action his reaction....when he tounge meets yours and then transitions into gently sucking your bottom lip or something, take note of this and try mimicing/imitating....isnt that how we all learned? (this is why i saw alcohol couldnt hurt, if you know what i mean, confronting this fear might be difficult if inhibited)

by follwing his lead your not letting him hold control over you.... you wont have to do this forever but simply to get a feel for kissing nsync with someone, thats really what its all about...trying to kiss someone who is constantly kissing out of rythm is worse than lack of kissing "savvy"

tis a rather lengthy post, im sorry, but i felt an odd inclination to do so, i can empathise i suppose, because ive been there in one way or another.

goodluck and good thoughts
peace

 

Look, Suncatch-lemme give you a little advice.

Like I said in another thread about stereotypes-you've got yourself and your guys locked into little boxes because of the stereotypes you've allowed yourself to believe in. http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207887&page=3

Now, you've gotta let yourself and these guys out of those little boxes. I've read your posts, but this is the first one I've responded to. Every little aspect of a relationship, you're analyzing it in a stereotypical way, and you're saying, "if a guy does x, it means this, if a girl does y, it mean that." They're negative stereotypes at that, they're not true, and they're holding you back from enjoying life.

I'm an intellectual person, but I have to not overanalyze things (especially the wrong way) or I'll go bonkers. You've got to just sit back and enjoy the moment and be happy or you're gonna drive yourself (and a lot of other people) nuts.

One of my exes taught me some things, partly by letting me know what really pleased him, what felt good, and by doing so, I became a better lover, and more confident. You're just looking at everything from some feminist slant that any time a woman does x, y, or z that she's unequal or at a disadvantage. Pardon my French, but that's all a load of bullshit.

Everybody learns from everybody else, and the more we learn the more we know, and the more we know (in this case) the better lovers we can be. Nobody knows everything, and nobody's good at everything, male, female, what have you.

Come on, girl-break the lock on those little boxes you've got yourself and these guys locked in to-you'll be a hell of a lot happier if you do.

 

didn't say anything about being possessive. Make no mistake, I don't want some psycho broad calling me wondering where I'm at and spying on me and shit because she's insecure with herself, just someone who can't get enough of my stuff because I make her feel good, even though she's fine without me.

 

You really DO think too much. I do too, but im breaking the habit. Learning to relax. And something like asking your partner how hed like to be kissed, or for advice, or anything like that shouldnt be a problem at all

Me and my boyfriend are learning from eachother all the time. And like someone else said, therll be things youre teaching him, too. Relax, and dont worry about it

Good luck

 

P.s-Regarding your question, "what makes a partner "worthwhile"?", i could go on all day!

But here are a few personal reasons, why i always stick it out with my boyfriend when we argue/misunderstand/he needs my help/any number of things...

1-we Love eachother
2-the more the stick these things out, the stronger we become as a single unit. The more we understand eachother. The more we learn
3-It helps my personal growth
4-The rewards highly outweigh the work that has to be done
5-Our relationship provides a level of understanding otherwise unknown to me

God i really could go on all day. But surely you can see its all "worthwhile"...

 

You take every interaction to be a power struggle, particularly between men and women. Yes sometimes it is, but not nearly as often as you come across as thinking.

Because he teaches you something, can you not teach him something as well? Mutual learning, understanding and exploration is the best way about it in my ever so humble opinion. Not one of us comes knowing every trick in the book inherently, we have to research and experienced, practice and learn.

 

There's no arguing with that.

 

... what ... ?
No, man. Give me more credit than that. Everything that I write about, I've LIVED THROUGH. Firsthand. Otherwise I wouldn't believe it when I read it.
(Like, if I'd read, "Every man you meet is going to try to cut your breasts off and impregnate you with his children" ... I wouldn't believe it. Trust me
Unless of course I had just run into six men in a row who'd tried to cut my breasts off and impregnate me.)

That's not what I was talking about AT ALL. You've misinterpreted not only what I typed, but what I think about and want from relationships.

I typed the jerking-around thing in relation to small things, everyday things. As a very, very basic example, I hate when someone says he'll be there at five and never shows up and never calls. I'll wait around until six ... even seven ... but by eight I feel pretty stupid for staying home when I could have gone out.

And as far as the temporary thing:
I KNOW NOTHING LASTS FOR EVER. Every relationship ends. They all do. And I'm cheerful about that. It's not a bad thing. (I mean, seriously. If they didn't, I would still be stuck with the first guy I dated, trying desperately to make it work and feeling miserable the whole time.)
I just feel they should end mutually. For me, they have never ended mutually. I have just begun to feel cared for when the other party decided the grass is greener elsewhere ... usually within a day or two ... which is weird. Temporary relationships should last longer than that -- unless of course we both decide we are completely incompatible.

What, you want me to go out there looking for marriage? The kinds of guys who are twentysomething and looking for marriage tend to carry a bible in one hand and a Wife Leash in the other. I'm not ready to be tied down like that.

 

Honestly ... this idea really confuses me. The man is the one who rams something into the woman. How does that make HIM the victim?
Also ... I have NEVER been in power. Even when they make me get on top ... they MAKE me get on top. Supposedly blowjobs are empowering ... but I've never felt more used than I did that time.
I am only powerful because I have what a man wants, and unless he takes me by force without my consent, he has to wait for me to dole it out, like it's a paycheck or something.
THAT IS NOT POWER. That is pathetic.

For me, I was never afraid I was a bad kisser (I had no idea whether I was or not!) -- until during my first kiss I reflexively bit a guy who was forcing himself on me. Ever since then I have not trusted myself to kiss anyone ... when people have tried, I've frozen and been unable to move, so they've given up, and sure. NOW I think I'm a bad kisser, not because of bad technique but because I DON'T HAVE A TECHNIQUE AT ALL!

This TERRIFIES ME! Oh man ... seriously ... my heart rate is going up and I'm starting to panic just reading this. I don't know why.
Oh, and alcohol is a BAD IDEA for me. The time I tried while drunk, I ended up panicking, clamping my jaws shut so hard I literally could not open them again the whole night, and having a panic attack so hard I went into a seizure.
Maybe I'm just fucked up ...

Well, as I wrote above, it's not just because of what I've read but because of what I'v actually experienced firsthand. For example, every time I have tried to have a physically intimate relationship, even with someone who was kind and compassionate, I've ended up becoming his inferior rather than his equal.

Maybe because in my experience, it has always ended up that way ... ? It's not even conscious (I personally have never struggled to get the upper hand or anything, and I doubt -- except in certain specific instances -- that my partners ever have either. It just HAPPENS.

To be honest ... I worry that I will have nothing to teach in return.
That, and I can be very proud. I sort of hate being put at a disadvantage and having to reveal my vulnerabilities. I feel that once a man sees the chink in my armor -- once he finds out I'm NOT Joan of Arc, he immediately becomes a little disappointed (the type of men who are attracted to me, tend to be looking for a Joan of Arc) and they lose their admiration/respect for me.
I don't need to be worshipped, or put on a pedestal -- I hate that. But a little respect is VERY nice.

 

you have everything to teach him, about your body your soul your mind, who you are and what you want, what you like and dislike, how you see the world, how you create what you create

 

Yeah ... but, like ... who cares about that?

 

Seriously, too ... I wasn't trying to turn this into another "all-about-sc22" threads. It's really interesting reading what qualities people want in other people -- what they can live with and what they can't live without.

I know a LOT of people like that. My favorite ex was one of them. Apparently he despaired quite deeply because I couldn't kiss, and couldn't seem to learn how ... so he turned to another girl who could do it better, and that made me feel kind of sad, y'know?
(I guess, that's what I'm afraid of ... the pressure to please someone else RIGHT NOW before they leave for something better. I can't learn under pressure. )

Anyway.

Well dude ... no wonder we seem to be at odds.
It seems strange to me, at least in my own personal experience, when someone I'm with turns me into the most precious thing to them. Sure, I want someone to stick up for me and not let me go easily (unless I want to go) ... but having someone make me into the violent focus of their whole existence is upsetting.

What do the rest of you think? Scary, or ideal?