Who's your presidential pick?

Do you have anything but strawmen arguments? Who said anything about PrisonPlanet?

Are you saying all the information on alternative websites is the product of conspiracy theorists who make up stuff to fit what they want to believe? There is no information other than what the CFR-controlled corporate media provides?

 

It is likely that he's dead, which is why amongst several reasons I believe what Obama said was clearly a campaign strategy to show him as 'tough'.

The comment didn't mean anything has been my point all along.

 

you haven't made a point for me to argue against.

 

Elaborate, please.

If finding Bin Laden is such an easy task, then WHERE is he these days? I am curious, as you make it seem that a backpacking college student on spring break overseas could stumble onto him one sunny afternoon.

What evidence points to his being dead? And even if he is, do we still not have to maintain a hold over Al Quieda for their actions and responsibility to 9/11, or are you telling me that there IS no such thing as Al Quieda to begin with?

 

As I've said before,now we know what the republicans do when they gain office.We know who they are,we know how they intend to solve world problems(war),we know who they favor(the rich),we know they have a strong dislike of our constitution when to act outside of it fits their needs(war,again)they have no respect for law(war,dirty tricks,inepitude=Katrina,ect),they have a disregard (hate?)for ordinary people,(tax breaks for those that need them the least,(the rich,oil companies)they'll stock the government with hacks and cronies that will do their bidding,they'll fire those that don't play their games,(attorney firings),they have absolutely no conscience about anything sleazy that they do and are continuing the biggest money transfer from we ,the american people, that the world has ever seen.We've lost any respect we had around the world and so here we are.The haves and the warmongers will vote McCain and the rest of us will vote for the Democrat.We should soon (after the election) be able to see wether we're fucked or REALLY fucked.Here's hoping we actually get some change from republican thought to ----maybe a more universal,altruistic way of running our affairs.

 

Yeah, but you always pull out the strawman tactic when it comes to debating the issues. You either bring up PrisonPlanet or try to imply that I am an anti-Semite (which by the way is a commonly used tactic by the neoconservatives to squash any criticism of Israel).

 

This is probably the most true to life post I have seen all day.

 

It was admitted by Benazir Bhutto before her assassination in an interview you can watch online that bin Laden is dead. Here is more evidence.

Also, the US has the best satellite technology in the world. You've seen Google Earth, right? Well, those are nothing compared to the satellites the US government has, which can literally spot a penny on the ground and see through concrete walls. You don't think with their satellite capabilities that they could locate bin Laden? Why did they let him escape from Tora Bora?

Either he's dead and they're not telling us, or he's still alive and they know where he is. The possibility of his still being alive serves as the perfect way to instill fear in people to justify more action abroad. See, even YOU support further military action if it means capturing the ever-illusive bin Laden.

Maybe they even want to use him as a scapegoat once again in the future, just like they did with 9/11.

As far as having a "hold on al-Qaeda," well maybe we should stop funding them first. It's mainstream news that the US government is funding the opposing factions in Iraq. It's also mainstream news that the CIA has funded al-Qaeda linked groups in Iran to carry out car bombings in the country as a way to destabilize it.

Al-Qaeda does not pose any real threat to the US or any other western country. Western intelligence agencies created al-Qaeda and are now using this group to instill fear in people as a way to justify their actions both here and abroad.

Ask yourself WHO STANDS TO GAIN from all of this!!

 

fuck 11 pages of reading

i am president of the world
and if you disagree with it, i'll kill you

 

But you don't care that the Democrats are owned and controlled by the same people who own and control the Republican party?

As far as I am concerned, you're falling right into their trap. Your thinking is confined within the matrix.

The Democrats don't give a shit about you, either, though they're sure good at pretending they do.

 

We stand nothing to gain, Matt. I agree with every bit of that. And I am ashamed of the fact that the US government is so intertwined with the very "enemy" we are meant to be targeting, and for that, I am not about to support our actions (and by 'our' I mean our leaders. Not our nation as a whole.)

It is possible OBL is dead, I seriously hope so. But yeah, even if he is, there are still tons of supporters out there that would carry on his mission.

I guess for me though, it all boils down to this: We have to be strong on offense, when the time calls for it, but we SHOULD be focusing more on a steady plan of defense.

If a supposed terrorist decided to attack us at home now, we would be up shit's creek, because our troops are all overseas, and the government has wasted so much time targeting innocent American citizens and branding them with the term "suspected terrorist'' that the real deal could get through as easily as ever, and by the time we knew it, would be too late.

 

I think it's useless to debate, too. People are obviously attached to their little parties...and their little enemies.

Why do I do it?

 

Snoopy, you're simply not listening to the man.

 

I ask myself the same question all the time.

 

I'm not listening to what man?

 

Pressed Rat.

 

My last post was stating new opinions of my own holding, it has nothing to do with what someone else has said, but I have listened to what everyone in this thread has had to say, and I agree with alot of it, including Matt. So why are you both acting as if I am oblivious to some obvious truth right in front of me?

 

To me it comes down to two things fundamentally:

1) Involvement of the state in the economy or not?

2) Respect territorial integrity of states or not?

Having political priorities such as mine, I'd have to conclude that:

Obama=Hillary=Bush q.e.d.

I know here is where I diverge with Pressed Rat.

 

That's right, WE THE PEOPLE stand NOTHING to gain from any of this! Who does stand to gain? The Muslim people? Osama bin Laden? No. The only ones who stand to gain are the western governments (or should I say the powers that lurk behind these governments), who are using this threat of an outside enemy to promote their own agenda both foreign and domestic. This is the same tactic that has been used by emerging dictatorships all throughout history to clamp down on the rights of the people at home while waging wars of imperialism abroad. The same thing is now happening here in the US because people have swallowed all the lies and bought into all the fear-mongering about Osama bin Laden and his wicked henchmen, who were funded by the West to do exactly what they're doing today.

You need to literally forget everything you've been told about al-Qaeda and Islamic terrorists and look at who the puppetmasters behind the scenes are, and what their agenda is.

 

Matt, I pretty much agree with the majority of that. So Praxis, why do you insist that I am missing some fundamental point of this argument? It is not as simple as black and white, that is all I am saying.