Why are you a right wing libertarian?

A question I often wonder about when talking to right wing libertarians is why they hold that viewpoint.

It is easy to shout slogans, make assertions or give an opinion and many come here to do just that and it is possible to learn things from them but to get a deeper understanding what is needed is context and explanation.

The why

So that’s my question I’m putting here – why are you a libertarian of the right, what bought you to that viewpoint and what makes you keep it?

 

Because I believe individuals do better left on their own. We disagree about what individual people 'should' be doing, whether it be by religion, science or reasoning. So it's better to leave them to do what they want until we do know rather than the state leading them in the wrong direction or at least a direction we're not sure is right. I wouldn't say we're totally clear-thinking and rational like economic rationalism would claim us to be, but it's more about 'want' than it is about 'best'. Generally speaking, of course. If they harm themselves or others, then that's the time to step in and say 'no'.

 

To threadjack early-

Then isn't it better to give people the option to be left alone, but NOT to leave corporations and a few very rich people the option to fuck everyone else over? Right wing libertarianism is what the koch brothers BUY and say america wants, through things like the tea party that depend exclusively on the interference of a few people. It's not people being left alone, it's the rich being left along to manipulate the poor.

/threadjack

 

So what is a right wing libertarian?

Like many political groupings it can be a broad church, but in generalised terms it is someone that economically leans toward neo-liberal, free market, laissez-faire type ideas but on many issues that the conservative or religious right dislike such as homosexuality and drugs they don’t really care about ‘as long as it doesn’t hurt others’.

Also try – Neo-cons fall, who’ll rise on the right?
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=333692&f=36

(PS: wow you were quick in there walsh, I hadn’t posted the above which I thought might help, I have noted you post and will get back later)

 

Yes, you're right. I think a mistake was made to give corporations the same legal status as individuals. Liberty is not diminished by putting reasonable limitations on corporations, and not giving them excessive freedoms like they have now. Massive conglomerations which wield much of the power to influence government should definitely not be allowed, and it is against libertarianism which is concerned with individuals.

 

^^^ too many individuals, too much greed, too much at risk

simplistic solutions will not work

'liberty' and other meaningless brain-triggers are a delusion

 

'Will not work' entails you are working towards something. What is that?

 

it entails nothing

i work on myself

[minimalist cooperative]

 

Doesn't that require a certain amount of liberty?

 

We are each rulers of our own mind.

 

Sometimes I hate you.

But never for very long:love:

 

Walsh

I don’t think you can get, just being left alone.

Even small and simple hunter gatherer groups have rules and regulations and the more complex a society becomes the greater the need for rules and regulations. I don’t think that could be stopped unless you took the rather problematic root of regulating against regulation.

Human beings are social animals, and that in some way forces us to create structures, ways in which individuals and group can live and work together, which is often termed ‘government’ or ‘the state’.

It then becomes a question of who regulates – in an autocracy it is one, in oligarchy a few and in a democratic approach the many.

You say you wouldn’t want ‘the state’ choosing the direction, but I don’t think you can stop it. I think you can only try and achieve a system where one group or another cannot take over the means of regulation and begin to manipulate it for its own interests.

To me right wing libertarianism seem to shout a lot about ‘freedom’, ‘liberty’, ‘choice’ etc but the ideas it promotes would only seem to give more power and influence to wealth to the point of giving it the power to manipulate the system in its own interests.

Try – Free market = plutocratic tyranny.
http://www.hipforums.com/modules/News/showarticle.php?threadid=353336

 

First off Libertarian's are only right wing on economic policy. One of the greatest Libertatan economists the world has ever known is Milton FReidman and he was against most things conservatives are in favour of. Things like the prohibition of drugs and prostitution. In terms of social policy Libertarians are as left wing as it gets!!
Secondly. I'm a Libertarian because I think most things the government raises tax for such as the N.H.S, state education, the bbc licence fee even things such as using tax payer's money to run the National Forests are unnecessary and that we can trust the free market to do most of those things in a far superior way than how they're done through the state.
Then there's the welfare state. What would happen if the welfare state was scrapped? All the money that is raised in taxation to paay for it wouldn't be needed so taxation could and should be drastically lowered. This would leave buisness with far more money to expand creating employment that the people on the dole could take up. Under Libertariainsm the full force of the free market would be unleashed on the country which would unshackle buisness's from the constraints they currently have to operate under making them uncompetitive because they're foreced by govt. legistlation to pay a premium for employees labour. That's why we're buying all our goods from China where co.'s can pay employees less money.
Basicaly, Libertarian free market economics creates jobs. Poorly paid, manuaul labour jobs but then that's better than having millions of people on the dole isn't i?

 

yes, we can trust the free market to "do" those unnecessary forests quite admirably

when they're gone we can all give a big sigh of relief . . .

 

It all depends what whoever buy's them does with them. You obviously just live in a state of fear that they'd all get turned into car parks or something. For all we know a business entrprise will take over them that will do fantastic innovative things that people, even you, might like. I'd like to see what would happen and if they do get turned into car parks then C'est la vie. Welcome to the wonderful and frightening world of Libertarianism!

 

i was unaware that "c'est la vie" translated out to "fuck you"

i learn something new every day

apparently "libertarian" means something quite similar . . .

 

Totally agree with you. The system does do that.

I'm really not so interested in money and power at this stage of my life so don't mind if I have a little or a lot. Money and power would be a burden for me, one I don't want. I've got no use for them.

 

Marchfool

Not that old guff that they are right on economics but left on social issues?

They are right wing on economic policy and most other things they don’t care about as long as it doesn’t cost them anything - that is not being ‘left’ on anything.

Try reading - Rightwing libertarians and drugs
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=368871&f=36

A right wing libertarian system is about exploitation a left wing approach is about helping people.

As to Milton Freidman he was a jerk and his ideas never worked and never will work because they are only half an economic theory.

Try reading – Utopia, no just Keynes
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=328353&highlight=Utopia,+Keynes&f=36

There never has been and never will be a ‘free market’ as pointed out at -

Free market = Plutocratic Tyranny
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/s...?t=353336&f=36

That is because ‘free market’ ideas are dangerous if unregulated and become increasingly so if regulation is relaxed.

 

What do you mean by 'they'? One of the reason's I'm a Libertarian is because I belive legalising drugs the world over will help reduce, if not irradicate the suffering of people in countries like Mexico and Columbia for e.g where there is unbelivable mayhem ruining peoples lives. I can't speak for other Libertarians but that's something I care about and a massive problem in the world I want to see sorted out. Things shouldn't go on like they are with the drug wars any longer.

 

funny that you would think that more important than the economic and ecological misery that will be unleashed by libertarianism

funny that the people calling themselves libertarians who have been elected to montana's legislature have then made it harder to get medical marijuana

funny, funny, funny