Why is the pope trying to upset muslims?

I think most of you would agree that pope is some crazy nutcase who spent his years ranting in the pulpits about an imaginary being that no-one else can see. Well apparently he has gone and upset muslims who basically are as insane as himself but believe some other story about this "god" creature.
So now we are all going to pay for this by being terrorised and blown apart by bombs. You all seem angry at politicians when war breaks out, but when religious leaders cause tension, it appears hardly anyone raises the issue, why is that - we all know the problems the pope is causing but he aint elected by us, so how we going to pull that idiot off his stage - because if we dont he will cause BIG problems
He at first said he would not issue a retraction of his speech and said it loud and clear like his original speech - then apparently he issued an apology but not to the worlds press
Now dont we all want to hear that apology loud and clear like his speech was? Damn these idiots are messing our world big time - well what do you feel about that?

 

I'm sure most would agree muslims are crazy nutcases as well, if not more so.

So he can't believe in something/one but others can? And muslims get upset over so many trivial things (ie. this and the cartoon)

Exactly. This is just an excuse for them over there to blame the "west" on something we have nothing to do with.

Catholics or muslims?

 

Are you serious? So the pope can upset these muslims how he likes
yet he knew damn well exactly what the impact of his words would be.
Now if he is going to make political statements, who ON EARTH
is this guy accountable to - because that man just caused for certain, more death
he is as guilty as anyone now for any troubles caused as he commented on it and was
political enough to openly criticise in severely antagonistic way, the actions of other people that cannot prove the existence of god either.
These insane people who believe in god are causing misery and war
Kind makes you wonder - how has the pope or any religious madman got that much power when they cant even give us the proof their belief is correct. Now how do we get these muslims and christians etc etc etc
off the world stage and put some diplomacy up there instead of politics and war?
Either the church makes itself democraticaly accountable to the people with elections or it should go - same for the muslim religion, but that idiot is putting people in big cities in danger with every word he says on the subject

 

I think one must look at who he was delivering his speech to, and the context of the comment that seems to outrage the Muslim community. He was speaking at a University, and quoted historical text. An opinion made by Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II, in the 14th century. Has the Muslim ideology not changed or modernized in the last 7 centuries? Should the same criticism be seen today as accurate...possibly by the response that his lecture as inspired.

Why should his comments offend anyone? Who is really stirring the controversy and feeding the mob mentality?

He has issued a very public apology, but personally I don't feel it was necessary, but he did it to try and calm the mob mentality, that loves to take things out of context. I feel his behavior has been much more magnanimous than those of the Iman that continue to try and stir opposition.

How quickly we forget how these same zealots became outraged at a few year old cartoons of the prophet.

 

Exactly he is not a normal person making fun of Muslims which is normal, he is an authority figure and when you are an authority figure you have to watch what you say.

This new pope is crazy unlike the one before him, just like all religious nuts and extremists.

The reactions of the Muslims is silly.

 

hmm if you look at the persecution that other religions have to face in the islamic world where apostates from islam are often killed .
and also the tens of thousands of people that have been killed by jihadis since sept 11 alone , why is it wrong of the pope to address the violence in islam .

I know my friends many of which are ex-muslims are all behind the pope .

and the violent reaction that he has got, nuns being shot in the back, a death fatwa out on him to kill him where ever hes found, churches being burnt and blown up ,shows that hes right to address the violence and persecution within the religion of islam .

generally the persecution of non muslims goes unreported, and we are fed the lie that islam is a tolerant religion , I think because of the reaction hes getting and because hes a high profile person he has done much to highlight a major problem

look at the other things that upset muslims recently cartoons, films against the abuse of women, novels , beauty contests , all of these and more have caused lots of deaths

 

But the point is this: When someone who is afforded the stature of a world leader makes any kind of speech. it is usually read and analysed for its political impact before it is read out. Well it would seem that either the pope is trying to incite muslims to riot, or he genuinely made a mistake in which case his political advisors are guilty of some gross negligence. In these times we cannot have any damned fool speaking on behalf of millions of people (yea I know - GW BUSH - blah blah yeah funny) anyway it seems to me that since this guy is not elected by any mass consensus, he should not be allowed the privaledge of speaking on behalf of millions of people. No catholics want to be threatened by muslims because some idiot thought they could clothe a political attack in the words of an historical figure.
Its not whether the muslims feel outraged as much as that when their anger reaches the point of a bomb attack, it aint the popes family gonna die in a nightclub, or a metro train, or a plane - no he is well guarded and protected.
Its people in some random western city that will get the death penalty not him
so where is his accountability and if anyone says he is only accountable to god
I will laugh them out of existence.

 

why do you suppose that either he made a mistake or intends to cause a riot, why do you put the blame on the victim .

look lets say your oppressed, or you represent oppressed people , if you say Im oppressed and your oppressor kills a load of people because you dare speak out, are you in the wrong for speaking about your oppression or is it your oppressors fault.

muslims want the pope to give a apology, some clerics have said that he would need to become a muslim for his apology to save his life for dareing to say that islam had problems with violence.

and why is it that you side with the oppressor ?

if you knew anything of this subject you would know that christians and other religions are oppressed in islamic majority countrys .

Ive lived in one and can introduce you to loads of ex muslims online who still live in islamic countrys who cant say that their ex muslims because of the threat of death or violence .

the pope as a christian leader a leader of people who are being oppressed surely has the duty to speak out .

christians are being killed all over the islamic world without the pope speaking out ,especially ex muslims who are not allowed to leave islam and are even killed in the west by their familys in many cases if they find out they have .

I think your attitude stinks your sideing with bullys

 

Are you insane?
This was an unprovoked propogandist attack by the pope (the catholic church) on the muslim way of life. To my knowledge the muslim world has not specifically attacked catholicism - christianity yes but not specifically catholicism. The point being the pope speaks for catholics not christians as a whole but a section. this doesnt make the pope the victim. The victims are those people who die and do not take part in that pathetic rubbish called religion.
Unless you are a catholic then please bring some common sense to the discussion, but if you are a catholic then obviously this whole discussion is a waste of time as they are just as insane as muslims, protestants, you name the faith theyre all mentally shot to peices.

let me address this first before I go on to your other paragraphs

Why dont you read the posts I made concerning atheism and religion?
It isnt the case that I am siding with muslims, the case I am making is that All these lunatics across the world (who are proportionally in the minority) that believe in a god are behaving outrageously. Christians, jews, muslims,
you name the religion and they are at war with each other. My exact politics is in fact a call to abolish religion in the UK anyway and in the western world eventually. Now given that these people, who are clearly not rational to begin with, are afforded the power to stand on the world stage I want to know - who gives them that right?
The pope claims to stand for catholics everywhere - which ones voted him in ? What majority in free and fair elections gave that idiot the right to declare opposition to the muslim way of life on behalf of millions of people?
My other point is that the pope also must realise that the muslims see this very much as a west v's east conflict and will only see this as a vocal attack by the west - they will feel justified in death threats and bombs possibly near where I live - I happen to work in an area that is always targeted by bombers in this country and if you had ever been within a 1/4 of a mile of those things when it went off you would feel this way too. I have twice experienced being within a few hundred yards of a bomb as it exploded and it is not something I want to experience again. now I want to know why that mental retard of a pope has that power given that his belief in an invisible man that controls the univere is clearly totally and utterly irrational to the point of insanity?

From a different thread you wrote in :

Just about about says it all !!!

 

It wasn't an attack on the muslim religion it was a scholarly presentation on the state of the world delivered at a university. To take things out of context and not speak to the main context of the speech is just throwing fuel on the fire.

The Pope has no family but the church and god.

 

The Pope is not political world leader he is the "Holy Father", of the Catholic church, and he owes no one an apology, nor should he try and align himself to any political doctrine.

He's has stepped outside the box and aplogized, what more would you have him do in the public interest? Tony Blair and Bush have said much worse and been given a pass.

His speech was made to a limited audience, I think a more fair question would be who made it public and a reason for unrest, was it the Iman that want to agitate and stir public opionion? If so why aren't they called to account for their part in the hostilities now going on in the world?

He's not J2P2, but neither was John Paul II the same as John the 23rd, or Paul the 6th, each pope is an individual, with their own backgrounds and personal beliefs.

If any Pope should be sainted it should have been John 23.

 

My point entirely, but that pass is justified since we can vote out their politics at the next election. Tony Blair is being got rid of before the next election by his party because the people have had enough of him and their party will lose the next election. Also partially because they blame him for inciting bomb attacks on london. If they hadnt done it, we would. Now - how are the catholics in this country, that may be bombed because of the popes words, going to vote the pope out of office?
Because if he continues to put my life in danger I also want that right to vote on his office - since he speaks for people across the globe - not just his country (the vatican is a country) but the vatican wont be bombed - we might be.
If Bush endangers Americans I have at least the assurance he will not be in office much longer - I dont have a vote in the USA but I know he is elected and can be unelected

In universities and academic life, the appointment of a new proffessor to the status of head of department is usually followed by a speech in which he links his views of his aims for the department and the subject he teaches, to the historical references of the past. This alignment of the pope to a figure who opposed the muslim world is like declaring " I hate muslims" its that blunt.
Bear in mind every speech the pope makes is a public speech, if he wants to make private speeches let him get off the public stage. When his words have implications for millions of people he has a duty to think first and realise he is talking politics that people outside the catholic church will suffer for. If someone now dies because he enraged muslims - he is just as guilty as them

 

Perhaps you should read his speech before you pass judgement:

http://romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2006/09/faith_reason_th.html

 

Accusing Islam of acting against god !
If he wanted merely to illustrate a point about violence he could have spoken about the many inquisitions and torture cells of his own branch of faith, he could have also spoken of the conquistadors who raped looted and killed most of South America in the name of the catholic church of spain
The man got caught out and now he is not even phased by the episode

HA! HA!
I'd like to see the pope give a reasoned excuse as to why he uses the word "god" when this thing does not exist! If to act only in accord with reason is the word of god then by gods word religion is acting out of step with god - in other words god would want the church to prove his existence
_________________________

 

It seems that anyone,anywhere that makes any kind of reference to Muslims in a speech: has an effigy burned & crowds in the streets shaking their fists & calling for the downfall of decadent western civilization.

 

And if you attack christianity you get accused of bias toward muslims - its worse if you attack the Jewish faith - you get accused of being a neo nazi or antisemitic - best thing is that none of these people can prove whether what they are talking about is a reality.
Looks more and more like these people who want to go to heaven and avoid hell are creating hell on earth - personally I just think it is now reasonable to tell all practicing god worshippers that their temples,mosques, churches, whatever are being utilised for the betterment of mankind (perhaps a homeless shelter, or a centre for kids entertainment). Then I believe that people who say they want to belong to a religion should be asked which country they would like to be flown to. If money is needed for that exodus let the religions pay for it. Personally I dont want these warmongers and their unelected politicians anywhere near me

 

Sense when is saying Ji'hads are violent, such a new thing?

Then to prove the pope wrong and say that islam is peacfull, they go and kill nuns!
The irony hurts.

 

actually Jihad is not suppose to be violent, but since like most religions there is a large amount of interpretation Jihad in our lifetime has become war against other religions and ways of life. in most interpretations jihad is a spiritual battle each muslim must face. so really it is a newer thing (the jihad=violence anyhow). which goes to show no matter what the belief or nonbelief fanatics of all walks christian, jewish, muslim, athiest..change the world and not always for the best. love.

 

I think Bush killing thousands of Muslims probubly pissed them off a lot more then anything the Pope has said.

There is nothing Ironic about it. I find is kinda racist that everybody puts Muslims in one boat and makes it out like every Muslim went and killed a nun because of this. There are extremists of all walks of life, not just Muslims.



One thing I fail to understand though is why is it that when some white kids shoot up a school you never hear the term terrorist thrown around, but if some Muslim kids ever decided to shoot up a school, even if they were US citizens they’d call it a terrorist related attack.




Oh the irony!!

 

sunshine and pearls who has told you jihad isnt supposed to be violent because whoever as has lied to you.

why if it isnt violent are women excused or the disabled why do you need horses .

and lango i can think of quite a few attacks that have happened in america that have all the hallmark of jihadi attacks that the media have gone out of their way to say they were not caused by jihad, and bush and blair have also gone out of their way to say islam is this peaecful great religion that isnt understood by the violent people .

apart from the fact this is total crap its quite interesting that they do this