George Harrison sings, life goes on within and without you..... I've always thought that he was trying to say life and God exist in you and outside of you. But then I thought, "Maybe he's saying life goes on in you, but then also continues to go on without you." I know life goes on without me. But I have to imagine that there is some purpose to my being created. No? I hope so ;p
Molly Occam does not think you were created...[in the traditional sense. but is not evolved..just a LONG word for created] You are a result of a TITANIC history of enviroment and evolution. To be the result of 14 billion years of developement. Under the hand of laws organised by ....whom? To be the most valuable thing in reality..A thinking self aware being. A self motivated entity that can feel and love. That can reason an understand. Occam believes we exist to find out why we exist. When we do that. THEN Well.. A sudent must start with ...'some' understanding of the master. No? Occam
Occam, I always make sure I save your posts until I'm wide awake in the day time so I understand your deep thoughts. I just have to say: you hit it..right on...my thoughts exactly...First, I was not created in an instant,, but am part of a process. 2.) Evolution does not exclude the existence of God. 3.) We must be self-motivated beings that have the propensity to act reasonable and loving. 4.) And in attempting to find out why we exist, we try to understand the master. Done. Amazing. Thank you Occam.
One of the things that Nietzsche touched on quite a bit ... ... people always get scared at the thought of there not being a Creator, of there not being a purpose for our lives, and there not being a meaning for our lives or any meaning within our lives. Why? Why are we scared of this thought? If this is truly the case ... look around us! We have given meaning to almost everything! Why do we need a grand god to come down and give meaning to the things that we have already given meaning to? We give ourselves our own purpose, our own meaning! The Buddha taught how to remove all suffering that one feels. All suffering whatsoever. Others teach that a god will come down and remove all suffering (and create/restore/reveal the Kingdom of Heaven). But why is a god necessary to remove all suffering if WE are divine enough to be capable of it ourselves? The only difference between these two end results is, either we will remove our own suffering, or we will be so weak and pathetic that a higher being will have to do for us what we can already do ourselves.
It's one of those vague lines of verse that have more than one meaning. Yeah, it could be that life goes on in you (you are alive) but also outside of you (life in general is not dependant on you...doesn't care for you either). Further, it could be the same for god. I sometimes wonder about this. Why should a god care so much about an individual? Do I care about my individual cells? No, they die by the billions all day long and I don't give it a single thought. The main thing is that the whole, the body, remains intact. Maybe God is the same way. That's why I wonder why any god should care about individuals, or why any person should have some sort of purpose beyond what we give to ourselves. People always want to know what the purpose or meaning of the universe is. I say, they really wouldn't care if they knew. Some people say they know, some sort of will of God, but no one lives their lives based on that. They live based on personal meaning: their family, friends, loves, pets, jobs, hobbies, etc. This is what gives us a reason to live, by and large.
No, Occam, it is not. Sugar coating the truth to any degree will only degrade and pacify the human mind. 'Creation' denotes intention, which still, falsely, wraps Purpose and Meaning into a neat little EFFORTLESS package. Ultimately comforting and creating a sort of philosophical learned helplessness. Hikaru Zero-"We have given meaning to almost everything! Why do we need a grand god to come down and give meaning to the things that we have already given meaning to?" We don't, but God gives us eternal life, a feat that of which mankind has only started to dabble with. This, among other things, is why God is Necessary for the weak. Occam- "To be the most valuable thing in reality..A thinking self aware being." This is our "blessing" and our "curse", however, it is not ours alone, we just happen to be the most advanced isolated species which can verbalize and complain about our condition, whilst the lower beings simply focus on survival. I often wonder which would be more desirable.
Molly Yes... All that occam has learnt..all that he has understood. Points to these conclusions. Remember..He does not WISH this to be the way it is.. it simply fits with observation of the world. What IS , IS, and human desire counts for nothing before this. This point is stressed here..because many say one without emotion desire is not human... Rubbish... Occam cries at the soppiest parts in movies and books. And he desires greatly, one thing.. that we will grow up A wisdom this one has learned... Ego is the enemy of truth. Desire the corruptor of understanding. Reason...IS the tool we use to understand the rational world. And it is ENTIRELY rational. [the world] So occam decided that emotion has no part in understanding reality What IS Just like so many before him. All humanity knows of reality. Is a result of impartial observation and enquirery Mystery, magic and miracles. Are that which we DO NOT YET. understand. And verily..the more we use our minds and smarts to work out reality. The closer we come to that which wants us to work it out. Occam PS... An important note. Occam may be totally incorrect. This is the result of his method to understanding. It never presumes of itself....righteousness. There may be a vengefull yahweh in heaven or an evil Baal. Or the toaists may be entirely correct. But so far. Human perception has yet to find any existant verification for these claims. And thus occam thinks he is as likely to go to hell as he is to be spagettified by a wandering blackhole.
Hikaru Hicky Exactly... Occam has what many would say is an unwarranted faith. It is the only faith he admits having. He has faith that "We can do for ourselves what the religious say we need a god for." And the precedents are all about us... Who saves the person who's heart fails. And death comes calling.? Cardiac surgeons....Not god. We daily perform miracles as they were defined in the bible days. We must lift our game folks... 'Miracle' must be redefined to beyond our current understanding. For thats all miracle means. Occam
Thumontico Occam does not feel helpless at all.. The idea that we all are the product of such a [to us] titanic history and existant underpinning. Brings nothing but joy and wonder. And such an understanding is not effortless. It took this one 30 years of thought to arrive at the conclusion. Which is muchly a fusion/synergy of hundreds of others and their lifetimes of thought and enquirery. Occam asks this... will you accept what others say is the intent? Mumbo jumbo of hells and heavens and silly fictions. Of saving your soul and other self centered human crap. Or that 'this' reality may exist because a direction wants more self aware beings in 'all' reality. How we survive against the machine of reality is the test of reason. Yes..And thus the world is not an eden UNTILL WE MAKE IT SO One day a book will exist.. The first lines will be "In the beginning. Humanity said..let there be light...and there was light." Occam PS...If occam had the choice of reason or no reason...[ignorance is bliss] He picks reason every time. Why. Because ignorance is not bliss.. it is just ignorance. Because the path is a billion years of struggle and hope. All the pain and beauty and suffering..imagination and wonder. And when this universe fades We'll make another While non reason has no self directed path. Non reasoning beings have all the opportunities, and choices, of a rock. There are plenty of rocks in reality But only one you And only one humanity
We are just a part of the universe looking at itself. So an answer as good as any other would be, it is so the trees can breathe... and trees were created so we can breathe. Unless we were everything, we couldn't begin to give an answer that didn't refer to itself at some point, and if we were everything, I doubt there'd be any need for an answer. Although I entirely respect Nietzsche.. I have some major quabbles with his writings, the main one being : much of his work is based on the assumption that weakness is 'bad', brought about by the fact he is insecure about his own weakness.. which is in itself, weak. There is nothing weak about believing in a god. We are gods creators, after all. It's simply another answer to a question for which there is no 'right answer'. Maybe that's the reason he went mad in the end.
Sheesh I forgot I created this thread. *sigh* Seven months later, and I'm no closer to understanding God than I was then.
I think he meant that life went goes on as life and God exist within you as to say that you are a soul but at the same time, life goes on even when you are not in it.... I'm not sure though...check the book I Me Mine-- which is George's autobiography...and all of his songs up to 1980something are in there with explainations.
Cant speak for Goerge but, Life exists and so do we. Thus,via, its a push and pull relationship. Especially with GOD. I think thoguh that the goal is to become one, before we have to.
