Your Beliefs Are Yours!

I read these forums regularly and do so to hear other peoples beliefs and opinions. I have my own thoughts and if someone asks about them, I will explain them.
What strikes me about some posters on this forum is the need they have to force their beliefs on others. In my opinion, the need to have others agreeing with your beliefs shows that you have doubts and need the security of knowing that there are others that believe the same.
In other words the most vociferous advocates of their own beliefs seem to be the ones who lack faith in them.
By all means discuss your thoughts but trying to force them on others makes reading them far from appealing.
Back to lurking for me now.

 

lurk on...

 

I agree totally with you and i support that all are entitled to there own beliefs...but i must question when it comes to the beliefs of a murderer is that still okay then?? Or then is it okay for us to force our beliefs on them?? If it means saving the life or lives of innocent/ce.

 

lurk on ...

 

It is uncertain if one can force beliefs on others, and the attempt to do so is unproductive, or worse, hurtful. But, I will not stand idly by and watch someone being harmed. It is my view that stopping the attack is a must, and ignoring it is immoral.

And it harm none, do what you will.

 

I will never try to force my opinion on other people. If people ask me about my beliefs I will explain them and they mostly agree with me, but if they don't I don't mind. But that is because I think there is not something like 'the universal Truth'. There are lots of truths, and everyone has his own, and if they clash you might be able to glimps a part of the real Truth.

 

What and 'Who' a person believes is very signifigant, can change the world, directly affect their lives and without a doubt the lives of others.

What we believe (as a family, culture, society) IS what will affect the quality of life of all around us.

Nothing matters more than a persons 'Belief System'.

Hitler 'personally believed' that humans were morphed from animals.
It was also his personaly belief that the closer to an 'African' a person was - the more of an 'Animal' they were.
This DIRECTLY informed his decision to kill a whole lot of parent, brothers, grandparents and children.

Believing that 'Nothing is really 'True' and that we simply make our own 'truths' as we 'feel' they fit has REAL signifigance on how people will live, make decisions, value their experiences.
I see that everyday in the youth I work with... who do 'whatever' and honestly have NO IDEA what it means to 'Stand for something' or hold anything sacred ..or a concept of love (outside fuckpartners)

There are endless examples throughout every day.
Ask Victims of 9/11 if 'Personal Beliefs' are signifigant and important in our real daily lives.
its THE important issue.

 

There is no ultimate truth as far as values go. Societies have governments [and participating citizens], among other things, to define and dictate morals for that society, and are only valid for that society.

You cannot say necessarily that shallow relationships, lack of motivation, and lack of integrity are negative concepts.

Without God there is no convenient objective moral source, values must be CREATED. You believe there is a God and a premade set of guidelines. That is fine, and I have no problem with it. That is until your beliefs inhibit the freedom of others in ways that have no rational base, none other than their subjective beliefs.

I agree it is THE important issue, but I do not think anyone claimed contrarily.

 

Are you stating that is an absolute truth?

Yes i can

I can tell you have never been a devoted Jew... or you would never describe the moral laws of God 'Convenient'.

Natural Sex is 'Dirty' - Sex with plastic is no more than masterbating.
Pulling a baby out of a mothers womb with forceps and throwing it in the garbage is valuable.
A man masterbating into another anus is valuable (as long as its coated in plastic)
Placing people in jobs or authority based on the amount of pigment in their skin tissue (and or facial features)

There are all kinds of new values being placed (or removed) and its interesting to see the consequences (if and when the values are observed)

Yes you do. You believe these guidelines (or many) are invalid, flawed or negative.

Why are YOU telling ME about values and freedoms being inhibited by anyone else?
Why are you talking 'as if' your being infringed upon by anyone else's morality?

Speaking of 'Subjective' - it might be YOUR SUBJECTIVE Opinion that killing a hundred future citizens a day by abortion is not a 'rational' value to have or not.
Without a standard .. ALL your values become subjective opinions which will undoubtedly 'inhibit' someone elses subjective beliefs

One gang member believes he is justified in killing off rival gang members.
They have agreed on this morality and value amongst themselves.
Since murder is neither 'good or bad' then we can allow them to murder each other 'as long as' it doesnt affect other people?

No sense in trying to debate ANY scenario when a naturalistic world view has zero concept of any such things as 'right' 'wrong' 'good' 'bad' etc etc.
If it benefits the society as a whole to invade Poland and gas some Jews - so be it.
Nothing means anything anyway.

But in anycase - I have no idea why YOU have decided to 'warn' other people about rights being infringed or inhibited?

Why do YOU think your right to freedom has any 'value' outside yourself?

Why do you protest having values enforced on you - is this some sort of subjective moral rule YOU want others to obey?

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Brocktoon, Thumontico says he has no problem with you believing what you want. You tell him he does so, and therefore feel you know his mind better than he does himself. Wow.
Maybe he just did not express himself clearly enough for you to grasp his point. I feel I understand his meaning. And I believe he knows what he feels better than any of us do.

How is it that expressions of love that support and respect anothers differing views are a threat?
I notice as well that any view contrary to yours is categorized as 'nothing means anything'.
The outright dismissal of one's spiritual views based on their having a different religious affiliation makes no sense to me.
Of course, you know that I am one of those 'freethinkers'.

 

Intolerance! I can't tolerate it!!!!! HaHAHAHA!

 

I hate hate, and I unconditionally love unconditional love. I have a bias against bias, and non-acceptance is unacceptable to me.

 

Why would you bother saying "I have no problem with your beliefs" when you clearly DO have some problems with some of them.
I didnt say Thumbotico is deliberately plotting to subvert others beliefs or hate on them... Im correctly pointing out that Thumbotioc (and just for example) does NOT agree with the Judeo-Christian belief Genesis is a historic account.

He has 'Problems' with that belief.

I cant honestly say "I have no problems with BlackGuards beliefs" when its obvious I have a problem with your racist belief system.

Thumbotico REALLY MEANS he wont have any problem with other beliefs unless they interfere with his beliefs.
He wants to be taught Evolutionism in school (his faith) and if Creationism was taught, even once during his semester - he would be mad (because thats not HIS belief).
Right?

 

Thumontico may say he doesn't believe the Genesis stories, a belief which he sees as no problem. He sees the fact you believe them as no problem.
You are claiming to know more about him than he does, as I said earlier.
I don't think you do, and ask Thumontico to correct me if I am mistaken.
I have problems with bigots like yourself ignoring my often repeated requests to quit lying about me.
You were the one that made the irrational, ethnocentric statements. Remember? You then tried to claim it was me. I take issue with that, though I doubt anyone takes you seriously anyway.
I REALLY MEAN that you are so illogical, and willfully blind that it is becoming very hard for me to continue to view your dishonest character attacks as not being purposefully malicious.

 

Well lets look at an example.

You have a certain amount of people who (in their minds) believe that a developing human is not a living human person.

There are a certain amount who do believe a human (in the fetus stage or toddler etc) is a living human person.

The fact of the matter is BOTH sides ARE trying to 'infringe' or 'impose' or 'inhibit' their beliefs on society (and the opposing group included)

Now if I said to you "I have 'no problem' with you believing the fetus is non-human - just as long as you dont infringe on its rights"

?

Well actually I DO have a problem with you thinking its a non-human and I certainly DO want to infringe on your rights and lifestyle whereever it involves killing them!

Yes.. I DO want my beliefs to be accepted by 'The State' and enforced by law!

But guess what?

SO DO THE NON_HUMAN BELIEVERS!

They DO WANT to force me to live with an abortion clinic in my neighbourhood and they DO intend to enforce this by law.

But this is why we started democracies in the first place.

 

I never claimed that I don't have a problem with your beliefs, I said that I don't have a problem with you believing them so long as it doesn't affect others negatively.

 

Oh why thank you Thumbotico.
I was hoping you would let me know my boundaries and Im sure other people are grateful you are taking a stand for them.

See, there's 'the rub' for your belief system.
You are informing others of where the 'line' should or should not be crossed 'affect others negatively'.
?
So is it YOU who will determine what is 'negative'?
Im pretty sure you dont believe in 'Negative' or 'Positive' when it comes to morality, values and belief systems?

YOU may have decided that same-gender marriage rights are 'positive' for those couples.
YOU decide that the citizenry SHOULD accomodate that with their tax dollars (labour) and GIVE these privilages (whether they like it or not).

But according to your belief system - if the majority of people declare it as having no value .. then it (temporarily and for that society) is now 'Wrong'.
It could be 'Right' later.

In fact.. according to you, 'Negativity' is a meaningless concept anyway.
At least.. its 'Totally Subjective'.

YOU are going to subjectively determine what is 'Negative' and what is not?

See... this isnt a dilema for anyone else who understands that there is a 'Right' and 'Wrong' written forever by the Author of everything that exists.

I cant see how you can even begin to unravel and work through your dilema.
It seems like you are in a self-contradictory, unworkable philosophy?

 

I thought that was what you meant.
His faith is no matter until it -vely, (I hope we can assume we agree on a meaning for negative), infringes on others.

 

Does this include Thumbotico's belief (faith) in a Godless Universe?

Does this include BlackG's beliefs (faith) in a wacky weird Universe?

I bet it doesnt. I bet that Atheism is not considered a faith and therefore 'not counted' when it infringes on someone else 'negatively' (which according to Athiest Faith doesnt actually exist)?

 

BTW.. anyone has some problem with a MAN talking about abortion - please feel free to justify why you should feel 'irked' about it.

If your a MAN being 'irked' about it - then try and explain where you get off saying so in the first place yourself.