your view on 'original sin'

As a pagan I believe that all religions should be respected, having said this i have a hard time understanding this concept of original sin.
So is there anyone is here that would class themselves as christian but doesn't go along with the belief that the human race are a group of sinners that can only over come this through christ?
What I'm asking here are for people to talk about their own christian belief.
and I realise that this may be opening up a can of worms, however I am not asking for anyone to try and convice anyone that original sin is true, so please people don't fill this thread up with a lot of examples from the bible where you feel that this is true in attempt to convince the rest of us, this is not what this thread is about it is about people talking about there religious beliefs that differ from the concept of 'original sin'
S

 

i tend to think original sin...being cast out of the gardern for eating the fruit of knowledge is allegory to innocence lost. a child whom becomes an adult, and now has to live with that pressure. there is a verse about adam and eve recognizing their nudity and being ashamed....a childs nudity is not shameful, because the child is really sexless....the "serpent of fire" has not been activated at the bottom of the spine.

children are free, though out of ignorance. the buddah or the christ is free because of his wisdom. they tell us to become once again like children, only then can we expirence the kingdom of heaven. we can never be innocent again, but we can move past our fear and our shame through love and acceptance.

with innocence lost we too were cast from the garden...that is origianal "sin"... it is unavoidable... unless one is to remain ignorant their whole life...but that would not serve him because he would lack the awarness of the purity of the garden.


edit to add...i just re-read your post and saw you were looking for christian opinion specifically....but i dont call myself a christian.

 

Ok.
Im not exactly sure how you ask for a discussion on the Biblical text and teachings of Original Sin - but then ask that the very source itself not be used.

Having said that,
It becomes almost impossible to describe oneself as a Christian without some sort of inherint sin nature being acknowledged.
You might decide you are a 'Hockey Player' but you dont accept the idea of using a Puck.
I mean you 'could' say that but then where does 'Hockey Player' start losing any real meaning if it can just drop any essential component.

Its also important to understand what original sin 'does not mean'.
I say this because the latest, hottest new Anti-Christian hate propaganda goes along the lines of:
"Christians send little babies to eternal hellfire"
This is a lie of course.

The Judeo-Christian concept is one of 'imparted sin nature' and quite clearly and unmistakeably Jesus (as well as scripture in general) have Children unaccountable.
They are deemed 'Innocent'.
In fact, Jesus actually uses Childrens 'state of sin nature' as an 'ideal' which would put us into Heaven.
But,
Of course we Adults cannot go back to that because, like it or not, we became aware of ourselves.

That said, I think we are all obviously aware, through empirical evidence that humans are flawed.
Is it a learned behavior?
Absolutely.
Is it an 'inherint' nature?
If you ask parents this question you sure get an answer - yes it is.
That is to say we are immediately displaying a tendency towards... aggresiveness, dishonesty, fear based decision, anxiety and so on.
Parents will tell you that anyways.
Children most certainly do come up with 'sinful nature' tendencies which (claims the parent) they seem to be born with, not learned.

Again, the children are accouted as innocent of sin and further more they are showing us 'the potential'.
When we become Adults its still a natural tendency to do these things but again we are now accountable when we are aware of it.

Anyways, kinda a big ole overview there of a few different angles.

 

Ikdenkhetniet I have no problem with bible quotes being used to underline your beliefs, just not posts and posts of quotes in an attempt to convert people that so often happens around here
S

 

Here is just my part of opinion on the whole thing. The term "Original Sin" came out of the Roman church, although some protestants use the term and believe in it but differ on their view of it and its consequences. The actual term is not taken from either the Jewish scriptures or christian scriptures. There is something to it all though, IMHO, which has to do with our physical bodies and the fact that we all are born with mortal bodies that influence of in some way to be selfish at times. We are not born "unclean" in the eyes of our creator. Maybe in the eyes of some "religious" people but not in the eyes of the one who has created us. Our creator LOVES everyone PERIOD. The main thing about it is that our bodies, as part of the human race are mortal, and are destined to die from birth. This is a given in any religion. Many christians emphasize the physical resurrection from death of Jesus, who took on human nature to bring the human race beyond death. The christian believes God took on our human nature and overcame death for the human race. Just as we inherited death and mortality from the first adam(adam just means man) so we will inherit life and immortality from the new adam(Jesus). Immortality being both spiritual as well as in some way physical in nature. The earth and the universe is both physical and spiritual in nature and the physical side of the universe was created for a greater purpose then what we have already experienced as the human race up to now. To many christians, all things(including and with emphasis the physical) will be reconciled to God, who is beyond death, through the resurrection of the "God-man" Jesus. Many believe that humans shall inhabit a physical universe as well as a spiritual universe in some way. In that time, their shall always be more for us to discover because our creator is infinite and is "Love" so when we think we have it all figured out and we are on the pinnacle of understanding the creator who is "Love" shall then, in a sense, tell us to come higher for we are not on the pinnacle but only standing on a foothill. This shall happen over and over through eternity. We will never cease to be amazed. A great contrast from the "traditional" view of "heaven" or the future. "Original Sin", or mortality inherited by the human race, will be worth all of the suffering it has produced when we arrive in the future. PM me if you have any questions at all. I will not preach at you but only lovingly share.

 

Samhain, I think what you're also actually referring to is depravity (I haven't read the other posts yet, so I don't know if anyone has pointed this out). Depravity in a nutshell, has to do with the affects of sin on you--your "sinful nature," and the extent to which it affects you.

 

Thing is, you can't be a christian without believing in original sin. That's because if there is no original sin, many of the doctrines have no meaning.

There is nothing from which we need to be redeemed. Hence the death of jesus has no significance in the way it was understood to have by St.Paul.

I think it is a negative, world-denying type of view that the idea of original sin engenders in people. It says that humans are basically flawed, and of course, imp-lies the existence of a judgemental and angry type of deity - so angry that only blood can quench his anger.
It is an absurd and insane system of belief.

 

well I know people that class themselves as christians without this belief they just believe in what Jesus said about loving each other
S

 

But they are ignoring a lot of xian doctrine - why not just be a humanist if you want to be nice to people? Just be kind - no need for a big belief system for that.
If you discard the bible which says original sin is a fact, and that the crucifixion was a sacrifice to pay the price for that sin, as c/anity teaches, where do you draw the line? What other bits of the bible can you also discard? Are you still really xian? Or is it just that people are afraid to fully let go?

 

well thats the arguement if you don't believe in the bible, all of it can you call yourself a christain, I believe you can, but we both know there are many on this forum that would disagree
S

 

They will indeed disagree.

But what interests me is why a person who doesn't believe in slected bits of xian teaching would want to remain a christian.

 

because they would have a strong belief in the teachings of christ, which was heavy on love and light on punishment and original sin, if indeed he ever mentioned it
S

 

I don't think he did actually. It was more the followers who got it all wrong I think.
I can only say that I agree with the idea that we should love one another and forgive other people. I'm not sure about many other of Jesus teachings though.
But actually, at least one extreme xian on this forum told me that the teachings aren't meant for us anyway, but for the jews to whom Jesus spoke. To people like that, it's all about 'the blood' -

Jesus may have been light on actual punishment at the time he lived, but xians through the ages have believed he will judge everyone in the end, and punish those who don't believe forever in hell - another thing many liberal type xians reject.

 

so you see its possible to accept christs teachings and not believe in original sin.
I am not christian by the way
S

 

He he - I'd never have guessed with a name like Samhain...

I used to tinker with the idea of an ultra lib form of c/anity - these days I just feel it's no good at all. But needless to say I'd rather the liberal xians like you mention than the fundies.

 

where ever i go I tend to make friends with really fundamental christians, its quite strange
S

 

Don't meet many myself - I know a few catholics and some liberal anglicans.

 

I love the catholic religion, that being said its too pagan for some christians!
S

 

At one time I was attracted to it - but I came to the conclusion that it is too conservative, narrow and dogmatic - and I have big problems with the beliefs - as I said before.
Thing is, it took me a few years of the process of reading, talking to people etc to reach this view, and along the way I learned quite a lot about it.
Overall what puts me off is the attitude of renunciation and the extolling of suffering etc which a lot of them go on about. It seesm almost to exclude the joy of life to me.....all the recent saints were celibates for instance .

 

It was the teaching of Jesus that most people were going to Hell, and I have heard it stated that one third of His teachings were warning people to avoid this place.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, AND MANY THERE BE WHICH GO IN THEREAT:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.