Donald Trump

Sorry, too many "if you don't agree with this, then you must be this" moments in that. I don't care for the hard left any more than I care for the hard right.

On the issue of racism though, I will explain why I call it nebulous. The primary reason is because it has become the go-to answer for anyone who says something that somebody else doesn't like. Few people pause to reflect on bigotry or prejudice and instead go straight for the throat and accuse someone they don't agree with of being a "racist".

I've been watching this issue since the 60s. I watched it get bad, then it improved, then it went bad again. As I follow the press these days the issue of racism has morphed into a set of simplistic, hateful points,

• that ALL white people are racists,
• that ONLY white people can even BE racists,
• and that the only way racism will ever end is to exterminate all of the white people (Even Oprah said this ffs).

What's really amazing in the US is the equally nebulous concept of "white privilege" which is really just another way to express hatred. It doesn't matter that most of the poor in the US are white Americans, because they are "privileged". It's amazing how many white people in the US don't realize that they are on easy street JUST because of their color.

What I still don't get is why so many people are lining up to get in to this horrible, racist, white supremacist nation? What could possibly be in it for them if America is really such a racist hell hole?

Your lecture would be more tolerable if it wasn't so steeped in snark from the onset. If I want to read snark, I'll go over to Slate or the Daily Beast for yet another LONG article on the evils of white people. I have no interest in reading your hard left justifications for hatred.

 

I mostly meamt here on HF lol. I cant say a bad thing about one without someone being like, "but I but the other one sucks too!"

I know this, people.

It is a hard knock life for those of us who hates both candidates and parties equally

 

Ah yes, I noticed this with lots of other things on here too. If you say this you have GOT TO BE that.... I won't give examples here as it would generate some replies and we would go off topic

 

No, he answered the tape thing and China does have relevance in our economy.

 

A nasty man, Un-inspiring

 

I don't consider my views on racism so hard left (though being an old hippie I guess I am probably pretty hard left), rather they are based on what I have observed and seen firsthand. In the 80's and a good part of the 90's I felt like we had effectively dealt with racism in the US in the 60's and 70's. I had my own naive perspective based on white privilege.

I apologize for being so reductionist. But the bit about white privilege is, for good or bad, true. Because we simply don't experience discrimination first hand. So if we don't understand or see what others are going through, we are either naive, oblivious, or actually racist.

So let's just look at your points:

No, that is not what I said, and that is not the reality. I did say that many liberals and conservatives alike are racist, even while they think they are not being racist. Being white does not make you racist. White privilege however does mean that you are unlikely to experience discrimination, and therefore oblivious to racism as it actually exists. On the other hand, being human makes you racist to some extent.

No, that is not true. I even wrote in the last post of how some Lakota are prejudiced against some Crow and visa versa.

I have two son-in-laws that are black and I have pointed out to one of them how racist he is against Native Americans. Racism of one group against another is often accompanied by, and if not, often creates a reactionary racism, in the second group against the first. We are human, and so we tend to have some level of racism against anyone that is different.

Racism creates a lot of reactionary anger. But there are White Supremacists who believe that is what we should do to blacks and other individuals. Hitler tried to wipe out the Jews. But the fact is, most people, of any color, do not believe that we should embark on any kind of racial cleansing. This is certainly not the intent of Black Lives Matter, for example.




Finally, a key point I am trying to make is that racism is not a catch all for all of society's ills, and thinking that it is prevents us from actually dealing with the problem.

 

I dislike Trump less than I dislike The Evil One.

 

I know, right? I keep telling people that it's just a coincidence that they decided to come out now, but they tell me I'm full of shit. Someone told me that Summer Zervos' story sounded bogus. I said, "How do you figure?"

He said, "Well she said she approached him about a job at his company in 2007 after appearing on his show, after which they met to discuss it. Then she said that he kissed her twice on the mouth and asked for her phone number."

I said, "Yeah, well how can you blame her for his inappropriate behavior?"

He said, "I don't. What I'm saying is that if she thought that he was really out of line, then why did she agree to meet with him at some frickin' hotel in Los Angeles a couple of week's later?"

I thought about it for a minute, and said, "I don't know."

And he said, "I've seen this kind of thing on Judge Judy. Someone would say that they were so offended and scared by someone's actions or behavior, and Judy would ask them if they reported it. They'd say no, and Judy would say, 'Well you couldn't have been that offended, then.'"

And the person would say something like, "But Judge Judy, they tried to do the same thing again a couple of weeks later when I agreed to meet them at a hotel."

And Judge Judy, being the smart person that she is, asked them, "WTF? You didn't report the incident when it happened, and you went ahead and you willingly met up with them a couple of weeks later . . . at a frickin' hotel no less??"

I said to my friend, "Yeah, I see your point now."

 

The very term "white privilege", is racist to the core. It's so readily dismissed because racism directed at white people is somehow the "good" kind of racism.

As for discrimination, I've had plenty of it, who hasn't. For a while it was because of my hair. I also got a lot of it while I was in the Navy. Professionally I faced it at Disney, Sikorsky, UPS and during several projects in the Caribbean and Africa.

The very idea that people don't experience discrimination for just being white, is also racist to the core.

We have to remove all this casual marxism from the discussion or no progress can be made. That goes for the idea that black people can't be racists as well, a complete fallacy. If people from different Pacific Islands can hate each other over trivial features, anyone can.

 

I feel like you're missing the point, which is that white people dont really understand the discrimination minorities face every day because we dont experience it. This is the "priviledge", that we can be a bit tone deaf because we dont have to deal with it on a daily basis.

 

Clearly there is something else going on behind the Trump phenomenon---that is not as authentic in terms of values that his supporters believe they are.

In another thread I read the reasons of why someone will not vote for Hillary, but choose Trump instead. The reasons went through a long list of points where Hillary was dishonest. This included items, such as Bengazi, that have been investigated over and over, including by Republicans trying to discredit her, without finding fault. The point is that they cannot vote for her because she has lied to the American people.

So their answer is to vote for Trump, someone who statistics, at one point in the election, demonstrated that somewhere around 86% of everything he says to the American people is a lie or half truth. In the 3 presidential debates, the fact checkers did debunk or correct some things that Hillary said, but they debunked or corrected far more of the things that Trump said. His history as a businessman has been filled with a continuous history of lies and deceipt----and much of it he has bragged about as being a good businessman.

It is like numerous pundits and political commentators have said---Clinton is held to a higher standard than Trump. Or, as John Oliver said the other night (based on what we have learned from the Wikileaks e-mails-----(and I paraphrase), 'that while Trump is out running illegal cockfights in the woods, we discover that Hillary is the naughtiest girl in the Chess Club.'



I think we are seeing things happen along the lines of research that was done sometime over the past 10 years that says that humans are subject to tribalism----in other words that they make choices based on a group they identify with. They may justify to themselves that they are making a rational choice---but in fact they are simply following the choices that identify with the group they align themselves with, regardless of the rationale.

Things are very fascinating indeed.

 

I don't like trump, and I don't like Hillary. I don't like any of this bullshit. But Hillary has shown that she believes she is above the law. Naughtiest girl in the chess club? Right. I think you should probably review the Hillary Clinton thread as it pertains to her dishonesty. Only some kind of tribal thing could explain her fans' overlooking that.

 

If I said I don't like black guys, or he's too black that would be racism.
But when someone here said I was too exotic, that's ok.
If you don't like black people that's not preferences, that's RACIST.
If you don't like whatever other group of people, that's OKAY.
I really don't give a fuck if someone likes me, I just think it's ridiculous.

No one cried Red Lobster tears.

 

You do realize this is just a variation on the old "Do you know what it's like to be black" question, usually employed to stifle a discussion. You're also saying that "we" don't experience discrimination?

As for privilege, the most prevalent example of that I have seen lately is the privilege of being able to hate anyone of a particular race without any consequences. Imagine getting a virtual pass no matter how vile or vulgar your vocal hatred might be.

It's not a matter of being tone deaf, it's a matter of being exhausted for being blamed as the sole reason for everyone else's problems. And that really does get old, especially in the 21st century. Like Alex Trebek said years ago, "we only have 1 test for being on Jeopardy".

 

My mom asked me yesterday if these two candidates are the best America has to offer lol.

 

I dont really get your point, no one cares if you're not attracted to black guys. I've personally never heard anyone called a racist because they dont like black guys?

 

I dunno, when black people try to explain discrimination theyve experienced i've never felt like i was being blamed for it because i'm white. You, well not just you but a lot of people, come across as defensive on the subject. Maybe no one is blaming you, but just trying to explain a different perspective.Thats how i take it anyways .

 

I liked the part where Donald asked how Hillary could possibly stand for human rights when she won't return the money given to the Clinton foundation by Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which treat women worse than house pets, and throws gays and trans people off of roof tops. I'm still waiting for her answer.

 

She'd probably say something like, "The Saudis have assured me that the gays and trans-people are thrown from the roofs of only one-storey buildings now, and their injuries are rarely worse than a broken arm or ankle . . . depending on exactly how they land, of course."