Was Abraham Lincoln wrong?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Coachdb18, Jul 1, 2023.

  1. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    In other words, you think we should return to a confederacy, such as we had under the Articles of Confederation? Don't think so. There must be other ways the Brits can make a comeback!
     
  2. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    We have no reason to compete, but history has shown that large blocks simply do not work, the EU being a prime example from today.
    The Roman empire, like the Communist block fell apart and Hitler's dream never even got started.

    Looked at from a company level, how excited do you get when you are planning a visit to Walmart.
     
  3. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    That was tried which resulted in a civil war. It has taken a long time to bring those states that thought succession was the way to go, back into accepting that--yes--they are part and parcel of the United States. Their voting systems were under federal watch for many years , which by the way, needs to happen again with the assault by republicans of the existing systems of voting. And our medical system is bad enough as it is--we need a single payer system as many other countries have. People in Denmark--for example, don't have to go into bankruptcy from medical treatment as happens here. We were humming along semi nicely until trump came on the scene. He has exposed the worst of us, which has been surprising to those of us that have lived for, died for and voted for the liberalizing of this nation. The pendulum is now swinging in the opposite direction--that is rightward as is being proven every day by unthinking, cult members who have not got the sense of a piss ant.

    Don't get me wrong--there are plenty of issues that need addressing, such as corporations , millionaires and billionaires not paying their fair share of taxes, leaving the middle and lower classes to pull THEIR share of taxes. Also, if you haven't noticed , we seem to have a little problem of rampant, built-in racism here. These problems have been addressed for decades and decades by the left / liberal side of the political milieu and have been / are still opposed strongly by the right , republicans. If you know much of our history, can you imagine living in Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, Texas, Alabama and several other states that figure it's a good idea to elect Desantas, MT Green, Boebert, TRUMP and other morons--right now or if !f those states had complete autonomy from the federal government ?? Roosevelt helped save this country from the BIG depression by instituting the WPA, the CCC camps, social security and we have some other program such as medicare, medicaid, etc that at least attempt to help many on the lowest scale of income. Yup--that's socialism alright. As is the military, the post office, the fire departments the police , the roads and bridges, ect,ect.The republicans have been trying to rid the country of ANY safety nets , including social security (which I draw) for decades. I can imagine where the states I mentioned and others , would get those programs eliminated as soon as they could with autonomy.

    This country is being torn apart enough right now with the advent of trump and his cult members----democracy with all the faults that exist, would spell doom for the United States of America if in fact many of the aforementioned states had their way autonomously :cool:

    PS: If trump gets reelected--we're not gonna make it anyway!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  4. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    I'm a big WalMart fan! Just about everything I wear and eat is from there. I credit WalMart and McDonalds with saving my marriage! After our fourth kid in four years got older, we were having trouble finding time to talk in private about things we needed to work out. So I invented the WalMart date. WalMart had a McDonalds in it, so we went there for cheap dates, leaving the kids with a babysitter. It worked! After getting our business settled, we just enjoyed hanging out there together. We should do commercials for them! After my conversion experience, I found WalMart to be a religious experience. I liked to go there to encounter the Imago Dei in so many forms--next best thing to a Rainbow gathering!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
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  5. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    What is it about the US that prevents states producing their own identity, rather than falling out with everyone.
    Seen from over here, I am starting to think that the media are the ones calling the shots and revelling in the chaos.
    Is what we hear about cities like Detroit really true.
     
  6. Coachdb18

    Coachdb18 Supporters HipForums Supporter

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    All the big cities have been taken over by Democrats, to include mayors and their police departments, city schools, etc. Cities have only themselves to blame as crime soars, and businesses leave for better opportunity. California is the worst, with population leaving by the thousands, many headed for states more attractive (esp Florida, and the southeast in particular. Places where the state taxes are either low or non-existent, and people are free to live well. Unlike the Northeast, where everything is about tax, tax, and more tax, the schools are so poorly run the kids can no longer do basic math, read, nor write. And the politicians all want more government, telling the people that will solve homelessness and joblessness. It's really a pathetic situation, but that's REALLY how it is. If you travel to ANY of the big cities, it's best to conceal carry, or you're just a crime statistic waiting to happen.

    homeless.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2023
  7. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    Last edited: May 20, 2024
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  8. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Also note that California, if it were a country all by itself, would have the 5th largest economy in the world, even ahead of India.
     
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  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Each state has a governor with powers that vary but in the main they submit state budgets, they have veto power, sign legislation, make governmental appointments, and install various cabinets. They can grant clemency, issue executive orders, they have regulatory authority, and they respond to emergencies by reallocating state and federal funds, temporarily modifying laws, and can summon their own armed state militia to aid in disaster relief or to restore or maintain order.
    And that's just the governor's powers, there is also the state legislatures and judicial systems.
    States can levy taxes, regulate state commerce, adopt and modify their constitutions, promote health and health care, have their own educational systems, transportation systems and highways, and they implement their own police forces and investigative units.

    And so on. Today states have much the same powers as the national government except for regulating interstate trade, declaring war, making international treaties, and minting their own money. In fact anything the constitution doesn't explicitly allow the federal government to do, the states may do.

    Your idea of one state banning imports from China just won't work as those imports may be needed by another state for their, and the federal economy to work. For example let's say California wants to ban computer chips from China in order to promote their own chip manufacturing. Can they supply enough chips to meet the needs of car manufacturers in Ohio or Mississippi? Are the chips as good as those from China or as cheap? Will California charge one state more than another for those chips? Will they favor one state over another?
    The federal government is much better at looking at the big picture, what's good f r the entire nation, not just one state.

     
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  10. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    I was only suggesting states banning imports within their own confines, helping manufacturing industry grow in cities such as Deroite. Semi and unskilled workers may not be able to manufacture computer chips, but they could certainly manufacture some Levi's jeans.
    It shocks me that companies such as Levi's can make billions, without providing a single manufacturing job in the US. To me, these companies are parasites, dragging the US economy into the gutter.

    Following your explanation, it does not quite make sense to me, why the US are so focused on their next president.
    It seems similar to the member countries of the EU being focused on what is happening in Brussels, rather than their own country.

    I mention China, because all the monies sent to them go down a one way street, leaving them no option except investing those monies in the country, which then compounds their wealth.
    Here in London, China own around 30% of our property, including industrial. They are bankrupting the entire western economy.
    When we import from the former British colonies, including India, the trade is more or less reciprocal. This also applies to trade between the US an most of western Europe.
    Things need to change, before it is too late.
     
  11. Tishomingo

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  12. Tishomingo

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    It depends on what you're hearing about Detroit. The city experienced great industrial expansion after World War II, as Americans freed of rationing took to the roads and the demand for automobiles skyrocketed. The boom brought an influx of African-Americans and immigrants .This led, in the 1950s, to "white flight", which continues. The population of the city declined by three-fifths between 1950 and 2010, while the African-American population grew to about two-thirds of the city population. By the year 2000 "black flight" had begun, as blacks joined whites in escaping to the 'burbs. Meanwhile, as a result of changes in 1965 to our immigration laws, sizeable numbers of Middle Eastern immigrants arrived. The city of Dearborn, long the suburban bastion of Ford motor executives, is now predominantly Middle Eastern and Muslim. Meanwhile, in 2015, the white population of Detroit began to rise again. A recent study of downtown Detroit reports that residents there are wealthier and more diverse ethnically than other Detroit neighborhoods, which Eric Lacy comments either shows downtown Detroit "is on the [upswing", or that the other neighborhoods are deteriorating, or "a mixture of both". Demographic history of Detroit - Wikipedia All of this, of course, reflects the change from an industrial manufacturing economy to a post-industrial service economy, presenting cities with the dilemma of diversify economically or die. Some cities, like the erstwhile steel capital, Pittsburgh,Pa, managed to meet the challenge and are thriving. How Pittsburgh Became a Global Powerhouse for Sustainable Progress Others like Detroit, not so much.
     
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  13. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    End Times: Elites,Counter elites and the Path to Political Destruction, by Peter Turchon. I read a synopsis of this book today. I will be buying the book. An excellent summary of political history and what is happening in the US now.:cool:
     
  14. Coachdb18

    Coachdb18 Supporters HipForums Supporter

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    Looking at states in terms of their debt ratio — total liabilities to total assets — the state with the most debt has almost five times as much debt as assets — $248.67 billion in liabilities to $53.05 billion in assets. There are 13 states whose net positions are negative, meaning, they have more total liabilities and deferred inflows of resources than they do total assets and deferred outflows of resources. In absolute numbers, California is the states with the most debt with $362.87 billion in total liabilities in 2019. However, with total assets worth $301.1 billion, California’s net position is better than some states with less debt.

    Nine of the top ten states with the worst debt ratios are blue states. For liberals, math seems to be very, very hard.

    1. Illinois
    2. New Jersey
    3. Connecticut
    4. Massachusetts
    5. New York
    6. Delaware
    7. Maryland

    8. Kentucky
    9. California
    10. Hawaii

    States With The Most And Least Debt In 2020 (forbes.com)
     
  15. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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  16. Tishomingo

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  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I was born in Pittsburgh!
     
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  18. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    My first 2 cars were Austin 1,300s, manufactured here in the UK when the workers were not on strike. The both fell apart with a combination of mechanical problems and rust within about 3 years. My next car was an Audi 100, which covered 285,000 thousand miles, during the 19 years that I owned it. It had a few minor problems, but the clutch never needed to be replace.

    Having lived in London during the 1950's smogs, where you could hardly see your hand in front of your face, I have no nostalgia for dark satanic mills. LOL
    Manufacturing should have been brought into the 21st century, rather than abandoned, I am sure that a lot of people who fled Detroit would agree with me.
    I see this as part of the problem with central government, who seem too busy electing new presidents to bother about their own backyards.
    Trump certainly saw the problems, but whether he would have been able to fix them is another story.

    'Supposedly', is the key word here. Plenty of cheap jeans and no money to buy them.
    I see no problem with reciprocal trade, it has existed between the UK and India since the 16th century.
    China is another story, since we send them barrowloads of out money along a one way street. Since it is valueless in their own country, their merchant banks are forced to invest it back in it's country of origin. China own more than 25% of London property.
    Odeon theaters, where I spent many years as their engineering designer, was sold to China about 3 years ago. More than 400 properties, with an average land value of 31 million pounds EACH.
    Our dozy government did not bat a hair. As in the Trump situation, our media were spending all their time worrying about Boris's birthday party.

    PS
    This is what we did with our satanic mills, or rather the port of London. An apartment can cost 3 million pounds.
    Sadly, the Chinese funded and own most of it.

    upload_2023-7-4_10-56-12.jpeg

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Here in Jersey, I giggle about the abortion debate because anywhere within a full days drive and all along the Acela corridor reproductive choice is legal.

    I see from this list knowing these places are where choice is limited and I am not giggling anymore.
    .
     
  20. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    " Bankruptcy happens slowly at first, then all at once"

    The dialogue above is from Ernest Hemingway’s 1926 novel, The Sun Also Rises.
     
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